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  1. #1
    luxikon's Avatar
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    Dr. Jolly's solarization developer

    I want to try the Sabattier effect on Fomapan 100, APX 100, FP4+, or HP5+. It would be helpful to know the normal developing times for one (or all) of these films in Jolly's solarization developer 1+3. Who can tell?
    Last edited by luxikon; 01-19-2013 at 02:56 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #2

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    Bob Carnie has been doing some incredible work with that stuff. If he doesn't pick up on the thread, try sending him a note.

  3. #3
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I was asked in a PM by the OP to describe my working method, and rather than do it by PM I would prefer to put it here so those interested can see.

    I follow Mr Jolly's formula for film solarization to a tee and am very grateful he wrote such a wonderful article.

    pinch sodium sulfite
    metol- 144 g
    sodium sulfite - 450 g
    sodium carbonate - 420g
    sodium bromide - 56g

    12 litre of water at 120 degree- then bring down to 70 degree for processing

    FILM SOLARIZATION

    I put all 12 litres of dev in the first stainless steel tank you see which is the farthest from the camera , I load all my film in holders and can do two hangers or 8 sheets at a time.
    I use a 5 minute time with a flash half way between, by laying the two hangers on the steel plate between the dev and the fix and turn on the light.
    I use a flasher as shown connected to a power unit which can double or triple power .. that is connected to a timer... the flash is always between 2-5 seconds.
    I have adapted the flasher unit with current bulbs and have bought enough to last my life...I use Mr16 dichro cool eye bulbs

    When doing my work I set up the camera and do four test neg's bracketing on what I think is correct exposure... then go into the darkroom and process, flash and fix.
    by doing this each time I shoot objects its like having polaroids .. I look for the exposure that gives me the best maki lines..
    Then I load up two exposures slightly different of each object so I always have two versions to choose from .
    For the best maki line ( black border) one needs to slightly underexpose so I have found this testing to be a good method .
    Calculating the flash time is a bit tricky and I would suggest shooting two or three sets of brackets, then try two or three different runs with different flash density.
    Try to keep your time between two and four seconds and get back into the dev and agitate quickly to avoid flow marks.

    On a typical day I will load twenty to thirty holders with film and pick objects around the same size and use hot lights only so I can see the lighting, as well I have
    found for my work a blue neutral background works best.
    I have also found that simple objects with flat surfaces, like rubber duckies work well... Maybe thats why Man Rays nudes look so wicked.

    PRINT SOLARIZATION

    for this I split the developers into two baths with the flasher over the second developer. To the second developer I add 450 grams of Potassium Bromide
    this in my layman language changes the grains structure of the flashed areas of the prints, that when split toned,(I use three toners- sepia, selenium then blue)
    will give more grain structure differences thus more colour possibilities.
    I use a flash that will create a nice white maki line , lately I have been pulling the print in the second developer to taste, much like lith prints.
    The developers are split equally time wise , a tip would be to just have the image emerging well in the first developer, if its too light the effect is way to strong, and if too dark the image will not get maki lines.
    I use dodging and burning to my advantage to create areas of real and unreal.
    It is very important to agitate well, in both baths as you will get flow marks and use an acid stop bath.
    My current paper is Ilford MG4 matt.

    It should be obvious to some that if you solarize the neg's then the prints you will get both maki lines and that is the line of approach I am taking now on my current work. Lately I am exposing two subject matters hoping to get 10 decent portfolio images from each group, between shooting,processing and portfolio printing it takes about two months.


    Obviously I am a huge fan of Man Ray, and when I started this project which is now called Alchemy of Light , I tried not to mimic his work and for years, never looked at his work as to not be influenced in my own. I believe Man Ray only did film solarizations and not print. I do think Ed Buffalo did a lot of print solarizations.

    Every thing Mr Jolly wrote on the subject has proven out to me to be correct, I have been doing this now for about 10 years and its uncanny how correct he was on all aspects of the chemistry, exposure and effect.

    I am very open to discussing this fascinating process with any worker willing to give it a go. I enjoy this process more than any work I am doing as it involves a camera and my favourite place the darkroom
    BTW I only use 4x5 and 8x10 Ilford FP4
    The cameras I use are as follows
    110 year old 8x10 studio Camera
    4x5 sinar plus sometimes extended bellows for closeups
    4x5 graflex modified twin lens pass port camera where I can put two images on one film
    8x10 sinar with extended bellows for close up and vertical work.

    You can see some of my work patersoncarnie.com or if you are in the Calgary area next month our work is being exhibited at Endeavour Art Gallery during the Exposure photo festival.

    Bob

  4. #4
    Jim Noel's Avatar
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    When Man Ray was alive the films were quite different. He was able to achieve true solarization through extreme over-exposure in the camera. I did a little of this in the 30's and 40's. The characteristic curve is part of a bell curve. with extreme over-exposure the curve would go over the top and back down producing a negative with a full bell curve. Sometimes this would happen accidentally as it did with Adams "Black Sun".
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  5. #5
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    When Tech Pan was available, I exposed it at about EI 25. The first step in processing is a Photoflo pre-wash. Omitting this step can cause uneven development. Then I place the film in a cut-down film hanger to keep the film flat on the bottom of the developer tray. A sheet of completely exposed and developed film is inserted behind the Tech Pan to eliminate reflections of the film hanger through the back of the Tech Pan. The film is developed for about 45 seconds with constant agitation for the first 30 seconds. Thereafter the film is not agitated until in the stop bath. At about 45 seconds the film is flashed with a 15 to 40 watt lamp a few feet above the tray. Exposure should be kept to a minimum length. A small electronic flash is also good for this. I hold a diffuser just above the tray during flashing so any particles floating on the developer won't be imaged on the film. This might not be necessary if I'd only keep my darkroom clean enough. After flashing the development is continued for about another 45 seconds. Processing is then completed as with any other film. I use 4x5 Tech Pan, but 35mm Tech Pan should work well with some inconvenience and much savings in film. You'd have to come up with a way of holding the film flat in the bottom of the tray. Conventional film lacks enough contrast to solarize well. I've also used litho film, but always had trouble with pinholes in the emulsion. Also, it is slower than Tech Pan. It has the advantage of being insensitive to red light, so the processing can be monitored by safelight.

  6. #6
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I'd like to see some of your work Jim, not many people have gone down this route of creating images.

  7. #7
    luxikon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the detailed information.

    I'm not a native English speaker so I don't understand what 'pinch sodium sulfite' means.

    I tried the process yesterday but either my sodium sulfite (6 years old) was oxidized or my flashing was too week, got no Macki lines.
    I used a paper flasher from RHD and I increased flashing up to 20 sec. May be the lamp is too week. I'm going to build a device similar to yours where I can change both time and intensity.

    I've to add that I took the negatives with a camera. Is it better to use the sandwich method in the darkroom?

    What kind of film is best?
    Last edited by luxikon; 01-22-2013 at 02:34 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #8
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    chemist say add a pinch under a gram of Sodium Sulfate before adding in Metol... true chemists can tell you why
    You are following the mixture... I hope you are not adding hydroquinone.

    I use a grade 4 paper setting my paper is Ilford Warmtone or ILford Mg4
    It sounds like your paper flasher needs to be built as I cannot see how you did not get maki lines.
    are you doing film.... my film is FP4

    anywhere near normal exposure , bracketing up and down should work for film
    all you need to do if its print is a multiple density test step on paper and try different powers of lights on paper and you should
    be able to find your sweet spot.

    I solarize from camera... are you using sheet film??
    I do not know what sandwich method means.


    Quote Originally Posted by luxikon View Post
    Thanks for the detailed information.

    I'm not a native English speaker so I don't understand what 'pinch sodium sulfite' means.

    I tried the process yesterday but either my sodium sulfite (6 years old) was oxidized or my flashing was too week, got no Macki lines.
    I used a paper flasher from RHD and I increased flashing up to 20 sec. May be the lamp is too week. I'm going to build a device similar to yours where I can change both time and intensity.

    I've to add that I took the negatives with a camera. Is it better to use the sandwich method in the darkroom?

    What kind of film is best?

  9. #9

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    This is a common mixing practice with developers containing Metol and Sodium Sulfite. Measure out the total Sulfite, take a "pinch" of it (between your thumb and index finger - same as you would do when a cooking recipe calls for a "pinch" of whatever) and dissolve it. Then add the Metol and dissolve. Then add the rest of the Sulfite.

    The reasoning is that Metol will not dissolve in a Sodium Sulfite solution containing more than a small amount of Sulfite. But adding a small amount of Sulfite before the Metol helps scavenge some Oxygen so that the Metol is better preserved while you are dissolving it, before the rest of the Sulfite goes in and "stabilizes" the Metol solution.

    Having said all this, the "pinch" is usually the amount called for when mixing say a litre of developer stock - which would usually contain somewhere between 30-100g Sodium Sulfite. Given the 12 litre mix in Bob's recipe above, and the relatively high 12g/litre concentration of Metol, I wonder if the "pinch" of Sulfite has any appreciable effect.
    Last edited by Michael R 1974; 01-22-2013 at 10:02 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #10
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Yes I wondered about that as well, but the Metol seems to mix well so I never added more.

    QUOTE=Michael R 1974;1450804]This is a common mixing practice with developers containing Metol and Sodium Sulfite. Measure out the total Sulfite, take a "pinch" of it (between your thumb and index finger - same as you would do when a cooking recipe calls for a "pinch" of whatever) and dissolve it. Then add the Metol and dissolve. Then add the rest of the Sulfite.

    The reasoning is that Metol will not dissolve in a Sodium Sulfite solution containing more than a small amount of Sulfite. But adding a small amount of Sulfite before the Metol helps scavenge some Oxygen so that the Metol is better preserved while you are dissolving it, before the rest of the Sulfite goes in and "stabilizes" the Metol solution.

    Having said all this, the "pinch" is usually the amount called for when mixing say a litre of developer stock - which would usually contain somewhere between 30-100g Sodium Sulfite. Given the 12 litre mix in Bob's recipe above, and the relatively high 12g/litre concentration of Metol, I wonder if the "pinch" of Sulfite has any appreciable effect.[/QUOTE]

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