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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrred View Post
    Note that scans do not do reversals much justice. Projected, or at least through a viewer is my prefered way to view them. In my opinion it is the most perfect way to shoot film. You cannot get any greater detail. However the scans are still higher quality than negitive scans.
    Thank-you for showing us the scans. They look fantastic even in that form. I'd be happy to get a bit of that quality in a Super 8 reversal film which is where I'm heading with my experiments on 35mm.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrred View Post
    One does not have anything to do with the other. They are seperate steps.
    If your dev uses Sodium thiocyanate, then you should not use a permanganate based bleach. They are not compatible* and this has been discussed elsewhere (possibly on this forum). It is also mentioned in the Kodak 2000 document 'Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 15 Processing Black-and-White Films'. Bleach R-10 (Potassium permanganate) should not be used with developer D94 (which has Sodium thiocyanate). D94a type dev (which is safe with permanganate) uses DTOD instead of the thiocyanate. See section 15-25 and 15-26 of the document. I know in theory that after washing there is no developer left on the film but not mixing the two substances in the reversal process is the recommendation.

    I do not want to use a dichromate based bleach (and it is not even available in the UK) therefore I need to think about what is in the dev. The use or non-use of the dichromate has already caused enough heated debate, so let's not pursue that one, please.

    *I have read a description of the chemical reaction between the two but cannot find it at this moment.

  2. #22

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    In researching my reply to mrred, I also found this

    http://photo.net/black-and-white-pho...g-forum/00Y2J4

    It says that he uses D19 as a substitute for D94!

    'Research told me that D-19 with Sodium Thiocyanate added (2g to 1 litre of Dev) was closer to Kodak's D-94 Reversal Process.'

  3. #23
    mrred's Avatar
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    I stand corrected on the bleach. Opps.

    I used a batch of D19. At the time it was besting other developers, but it seemed to favour TMY or TMX and not the films I was using. I had perfect results from dektol (contrary to Mr PE's opinion). As a bonus, it is a fraction of the cost.

    It should give you exactly the same look as the Super-8 reversals. It is the same process.
    Get it right in the camera, the first time...

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrred View Post
    I stand corrected on the bleach. Opps.

    I used a batch of D19. At the time it was besting other developers, but it seemed to favour TMY or TMX and not the films I was using. I had perfect results from dektol (contrary to Mr PE's opinion). As a bonus, it is a fraction of the cost.

    It should give you exactly the same look as the Super-8 reversals. It is the same process.
    mrred. I'm excited by what I saw in your dektol processed slides. I will certainly investigate it as an option and the description of your process on the blog should be a great help to anyone who considers that route...

  5. #25
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    In my previous post D75 should read D76.

    Now, as for Dektol. It is used as a film developer when one is not overly concerned with grain. This mainly applies to processing film negatives. And, this use started with the newspaper industry when they found that Dektol with Super XX film using a 1:3 dilution for 3' or a 1:7 dilution for 7' gave negatives that could be printed in newspapers with good detail even though the original was rather poor. The printing process kind of decreased grain and de-emphasized sharpness.

    So, amateurs today, seeing that practice, latched on to it, as it is a quick and easy (dirty) way to use 1 developer to get a film negative and prints as well.

    So, yes it can be done but the highest quality is not gained.

    Now, for reversal the situation is different in that the final grain is determined by the second developer. Sharpness is divided up between the two developers and so it can be a wash here for Dektol as first developer.

    I always say, "use what works for you". In this case, without a side by side comparison, Dektol appears to (and does) work but may not be the best solution.

    David Vestal and Al Weber both teach this method in their workshops with the same cautionary notes that I have made here. I trust them both implicitly.

    PE

  6. #26
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    Mr Datsun,

    I mix a varient of D94a. I mix in everything but for DTOD. I have not had any issues with my soup when processing Foma, Shanghai GP3, ORWO UN54 or Kodak Vision 2/3 all as B&W reversal. I have not used my D94a (-DTOD) to process 7266 yet.

    I have since moved on to Kodak D19. It is much easier to tear open a premix packet of powder when being lazy.

    Also could I suggest that you give the sodium thiosulphate a miss. I do, and again I have done so since finding I cannot spot a difference between a 1st developer with sodium thiosulphate and a 1st developer without it. If you try without sodium thiosulphate and are happy with the results then run with it, if not then don't.

    I also stay away from Permanganate Bleach because I have not had good experiences with it. Maybe I was doing something wrong... Dichromate Bleach has become my bleach of choice and proven to be reliable with all films I have used to date.
    Cheers - Andy C
    ---------------------

    16mm Cine, 35mm, 120, 5x4 & 7x5.

  7. #27
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    Hennry;

    I have been in the field of photography for over 60 years. That photo was my retirement photo from EK in 1997. I do not take a photo of me every year or so to update it, but the DVDs show mi in 1998, or 11 years later. Howzzat?

    So Since I started photography at 8, and color at 12, you probably are an older guy!!! I was probably taking air to air photos in SEA when you were crapping in diapers. Anyhow, if I was wrong, apologies. If you wish to correct me, please do so. So, at the time of that photo I had had over 30 years experience. How about you?

    PE

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by henry finley View Post
    BTW I was 9 when I FINALLY got my Instamatic 104 for Christmas 1965. If anybody remembers the Dick van Dyke commercials on Bonanza, or Jackie Gleason, or Ed Sullivan--I can't remember.
    Beat you by a year henry - a Brownie Starmatic for my 8th birthday in 1964.

    I expect my Dad used his Kodak employee discount .

    The 11th birthday was better though -the Kodak camera shown in the attached plus a developing kit:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails portals-apug-2007-12.jpg  
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #29
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    I guess I am the youngster. I'm only 50....
    Get it right in the camera, the first time...

  10. #30

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    Oxleyroad – thanks for the D19 advice. I may try it if I decide PQ isn't right when I start on the Super 8. I'm interested in your note about sodium thiosulphate – I added a similar amount to that suggested by the Ilford Reversal sheet. It wiped out the image by about 80%. So I rediced to 0.5g in 330ml and this improved but the image density was overall reduced by about 15%. Still thinking about that and went back to retest my original 1st/2nd times and mixes to check they were working correctly.

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