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  1. #31
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    D72 (Dektol) can be used as well, it's generally not realised (or remembered) that it is in fact a Film developer with Universal properties, it gives quite high contrasts. At one time Kodak marketed D72/Dektol as a Film developer then also as a paper developer in the US but it was a few decades before Kodak Ltd in the UK began selling it as a paper developer in place of D163.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From Kodak Ltd, Kodak Chemicals and Formulae, 1949, US Eastman Kodak publications (same era) recommend it as a film & plate developer and also as a print developer.

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 02-11-2013 at 08:21 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: add

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.datsun View Post
    Gerald, Thank-you. So what I need to work out now is whether D76 is similar enough to D94a once the sodium thiosulfate is added to produce similar results? I'll find the formula and post them.

    ...

    afaik, DTOD is the hypo for which we use the sodium thiosulphate. ....

    .
    Wrong! DTOD is HOCH2CH2-S-CH2CH2-S-CH2CH2OH (1,2-di(2-hydroxyethylthio)ethane). It was substituted for 9.1 ml of sodium thiocyanate (51% solution) (not thiosulfate) to turn D-94 into D-94A.

    D-94 is very different from D-76. D-76 does not have the energy to make a good reversal first developer, although variants of it have been used for some special purposes. Reversal first developers are normally high contrast negative developers, like D-19, with some thiocyanate added as a silver solvent to keep the highlights clear. D-67 is another popular first developer. It is simply D-19 with 2 g per liter of potassiun thiocyanate added. Dektol is fairly close (but not the same) as D-19; diluting it 2+3 and adding thiocyanate may (but only may) work decently.

  3. #33
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    What nworth said. The recipe ilford presented was tailored for ilford's offerings. This is why I make a hypo solution an add it at developing time, if required at all. You need to build up enough developed silver first, and that will be different with each type of film. I do not put any pre-mixed in the developer for that reason. Just have a look at the tables I posted on my blog.

    I shoot a bunch of frames ranging from 25 to 1600 iso in 1 stop increments with a card indicating what iso I am shooting. When I look at the developed strip, it allows me to guess how much more (or less) hypo to add. You need to take a more systematic approach to nail it down.
    Get it right in the camera, the first time...

  4. #34
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    D72 (Dektol) can be used as well, it's generally not realised (or remembered) that it is in fact a Film developer with Universal properties, it gives quite high contrasts.
    I have been using Dektol to develop sheet film (for carbon printing) ever since I accidentally grabbed a bottle of Dektol instead of the D-76. I was going to use the D-76 because I ran out of the Ilford PQ Universal Developer.

    The neg came out fine...so did the print:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Girders_Golden_Gate_Bridge.jpg  
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrred View Post
    What nworth said. The recipe ilford presented was tailored for ilford's offerings. This is why I make a hypo solution an add it at developing time, if required at all. You need to build up enough developed silver first, and that will be different with each type of film. I do not put any pre-mixed in the developer for that reason. Just have a look at the tables I posted on my blog.

    I shoot a bunch of frames ranging from 25 to 1600 iso in 1 stop increments with a card indicating what iso I am shooting. When I look at the developed strip, it allows me to guess how much more (or less) hypo to add. You need to take a more systematic approach to nail it down.
    Mr Red. Thanks for the response and I have been studying your blog and wanted to ask you some questions. I worked out that the reduced volume of hypo (0.5g in 330ml) I was using in my 2nd hypo test was in the same ballpark as yours when I tried it. It was hard to measure 0.5g and I thought that next time I would use your hypo solution method so I could work with smaller increments more like 0.1g per 330ml. Obviously my film is not one you have tried so I will need to work out the right amount of hypo for the Tri-X – I hadn't thought it would be such a drastic deviation. Clearly I need to do a lot more tests and then I really ought to be testing on Super 8. I think that the slightly opaque base of the Tri-X is making it hard to evaluate at the moment.

    Question1. 'You need to build up enough developed silver first'. You mean getting the first development time and dilution correct before hypo trials?

    Question2. Also, how did you decide whether to use Dektol at 1+1 or 1+2 for each type of film?

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by nworth View Post
    Wrong! DTOD is HOCH2CH2-S-CH2CH2-S-CH2CH2OH (1,2-di(2-hydroxyethylthio)ethane). It was substituted for 9.1 ml of sodium thiocyanate (51% solution) (not thiosulfate) to turn D-94 into D-94A.

    D-94 is very different from D-76. D-76 does not have the energy to make a good reversal first developer, although variants of it have been used for some special purposes. Reversal first developers are normally high contrast negative developers, like D-19, with some thiocyanate added as a silver solvent to keep the highlights clear. D-67 is another popular first developer. It is simply D-19 with 2 g per liter of potassiun thiocyanate added. Dektol is fairly close (but not the same) as D-19; diluting it 2+3 and adding thiocyanate may (but only may) work decently.
    nworth. Thank-you. I understand the difference between D-94 and D94a. I was only saying that I thought that in place of the DTOD in D94a which is its hypo we could use instead, sodium thiosulfate which is also a hypo when tyring out another substitute developer. I didn't mean to suggest that I thought D94 contained sodium thiosulfate itself.

    Anyway, Mr Red's Dektol work suggests that it's a good developer for reversal.

    Would you know whether D-19 or Dektol are higher contrast than the PQ Universal that I'm currently testing with?

  7. #37

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    And another thing. Kodak now have a Dektol in liquid. POLYMAX Paper Developer 500ml Liquid.

    'Neutral to cold working paper developer, recommended by Kodak for virtually everything. Liquid is the best value, diluting 1+9. Powder packings dilute 1+2. Kodak Polymax is a re-named Dektol in a small packaging.'

    I may find this easier. But I'm unclear, what is the equivalent dilution to get the same 1+1 or 1+2 strengths that you would use when dektol is mixed from powder?

    EDIT:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...3cp/e103cp.pdf

    So I'm guessing that when the Kodak sheets says 1:2 for Dektol stock from powder they really mean 1+2 and when they say 1:9 for the dektol liquid they really mean 1+9.

    Therefore 1+2 stock from powder is equivalent to 1+9 from liquid and so that 1+1 is equivalent to 2+9 of the liquid form.
    Last edited by mr.datsun; 02-11-2013 at 01:04 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #38
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    My last post sparked some discussion of old age. Sorry. And, the date for the DVDs should be 2008 not 1998. Sorry. So, I am now older and wiser. I hope.

    Anyhow, Kodak once made a Universal MQ developer for film and paper that cane packed alone or in Tri Chem Packs. They also had a liquid called Versatol which could develop films or paper. This worked well when the films were 4x5, but as people moved to 35mm and the films became more sophisticated, these products were no longer recommended as universal.

    All of the major film companies recommended different developers for film and paper, and different dilutions for the fixer to be used for them. This is to get the optimum image.

    So, i suspect that when using 4x5 negs from Dektol, one will be quite happy as compared to the 35mm user who develops his film in Dektol.

    In 1965, I was starting work at Kodak after leaving the USAF and getting my graduate degree. So, yes I am older than in the picture. I'll have to post a portrait or something I guess.

    PE

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.datsun
    Question1. 'You need to build up enough developed silver first'. You mean getting the first development time and dilution correct before hypo trials?

    Question2. Also, how did you decide whether to use Dektol at 1+1 or 1+2 for each type of film?
    1: I take an unexploded strip of film and develop and fix it. You are looking to only get a minimal amount of base fog. That will indicate black limit of the developer. A little fog is okay,as the clear will take care of it. Too much and your image will get too thin. This test is handy to figure out solutions and development times.

    2: see above.

    The solvent (hypo) does not really just take care of the highlights, but think of it as applying a curve to your image. The above to be applying the lower curve. You will know what to adjust by what you see.

    Some films work better than others. Foma 100 is about perfect, and no hypo was required with dektol. Plusx was my favorite before that. Neopan 400 is wonderful, but across 100 is disappointing. I have never liked the results enough from tmy to keep using it.
    Get it right in the camera, the first time...

  10. #40
    mrred's Avatar
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    You don't explode film. my playbook strikes again!
    Get it right in the camera, the first time...

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