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  1. #31
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    Yes. As much as possible. Film has a very limited range compared to our eyes and a creative decision has to be made how to fit a wide range into the film's dynamic range. If done right, it sets up the best conditions to extract the information when printing in the darkroom or scanning. A straight print rarely looks good, but properly exposed and processed film increases you chances of getting what I want. But not always.
    Actually I would suggest that negative films are not that limited, its the paper that is most limiting.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    You could go a step further with what Usagi said too:

    "If you use Zone System only for capturing as much of subject brightness (scene) as possible on the film..."

    ...then you don't need any system, ZS, BZTS or otherwise. Use the ISO speed for the film, meter carefully and develop normally. Most films will record at least 10 stops with full separations, and have a longer range than that with only minor compression. Then use burning, dodging, VC filters and other print controls to bring all the values into the print. By far the most bang for the buck is in printing skill. Printing is power.
    Absolutely.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #33
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usagi View Post
    If you use Zone System only for capturing as much of subject brightness (scene) as possible on the film, you could just skip Zone System and use BTZS or similar. As there's no use for zones, just the the both ends of the (zone) scale.

    Where is visualization which should be core of Zone System as I understand?

    As for print having always 11 zones.. I don't agree with that.

    If I have subject, say caucasian people and some important shadows. The skin is usually at VI. My visualization may differ, but if in this case I place important shadows to III. The skin fall's to V which is too low.
    If there's not any important highlights, I can expose and develop by using N+2 and I will have negative which (in theory) is easy to print grade 2 paper so that shadows are detailed and rich, the skin has right value. Highlights may require some burning, depending on situation.
    That print doesn't have 11 zones.
    Usagi,

    First, the issue you are describing (the spacing between subjects) is not really a zone system issue; it is a lighting issue, it can be solved with a touch of artificial light on the skin or when printing by using some judicious burning or dodging.

    Second, yes, changing contrast rate does shorten the range of what prints from the film allowing the skin to print lighter. That's not always a good choice though. Micro contrast and skin texture may look right at normal development and easily look strained at +2.

    Third, there are 11 print zones in the classic zone system, those zones have 11 corresponding zones in the scene, they all exist regardless of how many stops wide the scene is; if you doubt that, I suggest you go to the horses mouth and read "The Negative" by Ansel Adams.

    That is not to say that the classic zone system is the only good way to think about visualization. People apply zone system principles in various ways.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    Not enough emphasis is spent on this aspect and strength of the Zone System.
    Visualization is more than an aspect of ZS practice-----------the ZS's core purpose is to support visualization. And I agree, discussions of the ZS all too often are about the film testing side of things (I'm as guilty as any).

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