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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgegrosu View Post
    For a good information about KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266 see:
    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploa...ts_bw_7266.pdf
    For good information about the recommended treatment see:
    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploa...2415_h2415.pdf pages 23.
    I make tests on Kodak Double X 5222 reversible procces.
    The results show somewhat similar to the one here.
    I think it's important film (fogg to be small).
    Then chances to get a reverse image of b&w are much larger.
    I had no time to do tests on film Agfa Pan Aviphot 200 and 400 with fogg
    below 0.10.

    George
    George, thank-you I have read those documents. D94a is not available to me. I have to use a paper developer. What you seem to be saying is that the results are always going to be flat!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Typically the amount of sodium thiosulfate is 8 to 12 g/l in the first developer despite what a previous poster says. It is used to produce clear highlights. Read the Ilford site on reversal processing carefully.

    If using the permanganate bleach be sure to follow the formula exactly. Specifically in the amount of acid used.

    Since each film reacts differently it is important to practice with the cine film and not regular tri-X.
    Hi Gerald. I have read the Ilford docs and they were my starting point. My first test was 5g sodium thiosulfate in 330ml - I got a 20% overall density image and film edge. The second test was 0.5g in 330ml - I got a 80% density image. Even 0.1g washed the image out a bit.

    Some people seem to use 30g/L without my problems .

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Guys, the second development should go to completion so time there should not be a huge factor. The bleach should remove all of the negative silver image. So, what we are seeing is a failure in the first developer to develop a high contrast image (and then some) that leaves no silver in the highlights. Look at the positive. There is silver in the highlights.

    Hypo in the first developer is there to force physical development and to get a good negative image. You do not have that nailed yet. That is where the problem lies.

    PE
    PE. The trouble is that my sodium thiosulfate tests show a complete reversal of the notion that hypo forces anything. In my case it bleaches the positive image overall. Please refer to my response to Gerald for the amounts I am using.
    Last edited by mr.datsun; 02-26-2013 at 05:33 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    OH...permananate....ok---well...8' to clear--then give it a bit MORE to be SURE that you get all that developed silver...ALSO--second development should be like 3 minutes or so..don't do too much or there's stuff "left behind" that will get developed and cause fog and flatness...this is why you must FIX after the 2nd development too.

    but very strong first deveoper--you may try 1+1 actually instead of 1+2--stronger the better contrast!

    but DO keep that hypo OUT of the developer!!!!!! it's only added in the olde recipies to speed the development process for movie film--when they needed a very FAST deveopment of like 2 minutes or so to process HUGE rolls of film in machines....you have the luxury of time now, in fact, you NEED as much time in the chems as possible to keep it uniform.

    keep experimenting, but err in the way of HOT first deveoper with NO hypo

    ALSO--change your bleach--dichromate is WAY better---WAY better.
    But permanganate works. Dichromate is not allowed in UK.

    I also get a flat image without the hypo.

    If I have to use liquid dektol at 1+1 I can't afford to use it. That would be £10 per film. At 1+5 I'm using a dilution commensurate with other peoples' experience (double print strength) and it is apparently developing to completion at stage 1.
    Last edited by mr.datsun; 02-26-2013 at 05:42 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post

    Since each film reacts differently it is important to practice with the cine film and not regular tri-X.
    You're right, I think trying Tri-X 35mm is a total dead end. I have ordered a new re-fillable Super 8 cartridge and will load it with small strips of Tri-X Reversal and start again, hopefully a little wiser and more experienced.

    If Tri-X Super 8 doesn't work then I'm certainly switching to another film!

  6. #16
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    I always use raw chemical for preparations of solutions.
    Reversible process b & w you should read densities of film.
    At least fog density and high density.
    From memory, the Kodak Double X (as reversal process b & w) fog was ~ 0.3 and maximum density was ~ 2.6.
    If you look at the characteristic curve of KODAK TRI-X 7266 is not
    as rich in density curve as a negative film.
    Again, I think better results can be obtained on films with small fog.
    I have not worked with KODAK TRI-X.

    George

  7. #17
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    Another picture taken with Kodak Double X exposed to 800.
    http://imageshack.us/f/17/negxxreversibilanredus.gif/

    George

  8. #18

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    Kodak recommends using D-94 or D-94A as a first developer. This is a high contrast developer containing 9.1 ml of a solution of sodium thiocyanate. Since thiocyanate is twice as effective as thiosulfate and the solution is ~50% this corresponds to 9 g/l of sodium thiosulfate.

    I would suggest using Dektol 1+1 as the first developer instead of the more dilute solution that you have been using.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 02-26-2013 at 09:20 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.datsun View Post
    PE. The trouble is that my sodium thiosulfate tests show a complete reversal of the notion that hypo forces anything. In my case it bleaches the positive image overall. Please refer to my response to Gerald for the amounts I am using.
    OTOMH, I cannot remember the formula for D94, but I do know that Dektol is a paper developer. As such it is low solvent (Sulfite) and high in restrainer (Bromide) and these two may be your problem. Remember, what you are trying to do has been done by others with success.

    PE

  10. #20

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    Kodak D-94 reversal film first developer

    Water (50C) 750 ml
    Metol 0.6 g
    Sodium sulfite (anh) 50 g
    Hydroquinone 20 g
    Potassium bromide 8 g
    Sodium thiocyanate (51%) 9.1 ml
    Sodium hydroxide 20 g
    Water to mskr 1 l

    Develop motion picture reversal film for 2 minutes at 20C
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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