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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    I've had good results with SE6 and MGWT FB...but held off purchasing any of the even-more-expensive SE3...
    I still haven't tried SE3, but did just complete a trial developing MGWT FB in another ascorbic-based paper developer, LegacyPro EcoPro. Unfortunately, the results were fairly warm, not even close to neutral or cool. Fortunately, this developer provided the exact very-slightly-warm-without-green image tone I prefer when used on ILFOBROM GALERIE. GALERIE has now become my favorite paper.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    ...Connect Chemicals, current owner of the business that still manufactures Neutol WA and Neutol NE (under the names "Print WA" and "Print NE"), apparently also offers Neutol Plus as "Print Plus." See here:


    I've written to Freestyle asking whether it would consider importing Print Plus but have not received a response yet. I'll update this thread if/when Freestyle answers.
    Update -- Freestyle never answered, quietly adding Print Plus to its offerings instead:


    I've just completed a trial using it with Multigrade Warmtone fiber. Unfortunately, the results are distinctly warm. Apparently nothing commercially available cools that paper down like Moersch SE-6 developer does.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    ...Moersch SE3...is a two part ascorbic acid-based, supposedly cold-tone developer. I actually have a package of it which I had intended to test with Ilford MGWT FB but still haven't had the time to try it out...
    Michael, have you developed any Multigrade Warmtone fiber in the SE-3 yet, or are you testing that developer's unopened shelf life instead? Seriously, if you've made prints, what was their image tone? Thanks in advance.

  4. #24
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    I chased this dream forever, eventually giving up and just using a reg'ol developer and the toning in T-26. With Simon of Ilford basically imprisoning the MG Cold Tone secret recipie, all's that's left is Moresch and neutral tone dev + T-26:
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/g23/g23.pdf
    Andy

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    I chased this dream forever, eventually giving up and just using a reg'ol developer and the toning in T-26...
    Andy, how would you characterize the "touchiness" of Muligrade Warmtone FB during the T-26 toning step? Is it as quick and difficult to control as that paper is in selenium toner? Thanks in advance.

  6. #26
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    Gold only Sal. I believe I did 1 min or so of a MGIV and WT in 105 degrees of T-26.

    Is cold sharp steely crisp....I love cold tone so much I now only use Slavich Unibrom (a bromide paper). Same deal 1 min or so in T-26 at 105F and you're good t'a go. Selenium after gold makes it all funky. Some like it but selenium always warms or purples it too much for me. Gold toned paper (T-26) is archival fwiw, selenium isn't required, unless you want those neat colors (they aren't my cuppa tea...but hey we can't all be the same )
    Andy

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Michael, have you developed any Multigrade Warmtone fiber in the SE-3 yet, or are you testing that developer's unopened shelf life instead? Seriously, if you've made prints, what was their image tone? Thanks in advance.
    Ha. I will try to move this experiment up the list.

  8. #28
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    Sal in addition to what I said above (#26) I guess I should have said it better - Yes, T-26 is quite active when heated to 105F, usually tones in 1min. If that's too fast for ya, using a lower temp and longer time will yield the same N. See, I'm usually short on time so 105F and 1 min are perfect for my style...
    Andy

  9. #29

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    First quote from another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    The test strips arrived here yesterday (thanks Michael!) and I just evaluated them in a room illuminated by bright, diffused sunlight...Compared to my prints on this paper that were developed in SE6 Blue, the untoned SE3 Cold sample was slightly less warm/green. With light selenium toning, Michael's swatches were slightly more neutral than lightly toned SE6 prints. Both, however, retained a hint of green that I've found no way to completely eliminate...
    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    I chased this dream forever, eventually giving up and just using a reg'ol developer and the toning in T-26...
    During the first half of 2014 I've spent some time with Multigrade Classic FB and Multigrade Cooltone FB in a variety of developers, including Moersch SE3 and SE6, both with and without selenium toning. Neither paper exhibited the characteristics most important to me, thus this return to MGWT FB testing.

    I decided to bite the bullet and "go for the gold." Multiple 4x5 contact prints were made on MGWT FB and processed in four different developers: Neutol NE, Neutol WA, Ilford Multigrade and Ilford Warmtone. All were warm/green (Multigrade adding a bit of yellow), but the Neutol NE sample had less color cast than the other three. In order to minimize uptake of Fotospeed Gold Toner, which I wimped out and bought rather than scratch mixing T-26 for this test, all black border areas were trimmed off.

    It seemed best to do the toning in full daylight for maximum visibility of color changes. I had three copies of each print; one was kept dry, a second left in the plain water presoak tray and the third placed in the toner. I compromised on toner temperature, using 80 degrees F, since that was our current air ambient and would be easier to achieve/maintain even in colder seasons. Watching color changes, I pulled each of the four toned prints after two minutes. A full wash, drying on screens, flattening under books and waiting for good daylight to evaluate results followed.

    Apparently one can be deceived by how things look in the toner. Dry and compared to respective untoned versions, all four prints still retained some of their original warm/green cast, although that was greatly reduced. Ever the cheapskate and not wanting to use more gold than necessary, I gave only two of them (Neutol NE and Neutol WA samples) more toning time, also at 80 degrees F. Since it was less warm/green to begin with, the Neutol NE got an additional six minutes, for a total of eight minutes. The Neutol WA print was immersed for another eight minutes, so it spent a total of ten minutes in the toning bath.

    Final result: The Neutol NE-developed, eight minute-toned print is as neutral as I hoped it would be, exhibiting no warmth or green when viewed in diffused direct sunlight. The Neutol WA-developed, ten minute-toned print still stubbornly retains some residual warmth/green. Considering how expensive gold toner is (even if I scratch-mix it in the future), it's best to start off MGWT FB as cool as possible right out of the developer, so I'll be using Neutol NE with this paper. The other developers can probably be neutralized, but that would undoubtedly take more time in the toner and, consequently, more gold.

    Note that all my gold toned prints ended up slightly darker than their respective untoned versions throughout the value scale. One ought make prints slightly lighter than desired if gold toner is planned. Unlike selenium toning, which affects low values more than high values, gold toning seems very linear, so no contrast "english" is required.

    I still wish MGWT FB had the slightly lower surface gloss that Galerie does. Nonetheless, its variable contrast flexibility and the ability to wash out its non-anchored optical brightening agent now make this my preferred paper. I'll be ordering more as soon as B&H's Web site permits.

  10. #30
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing, Sal. I'm in midst of a larger printing job, finishing up my upcoming show, so I'm sticking for the whole of it with my combo of modified DS14 + Se, which is warmish but on the cooler side of it that I could find. When I'm done with this, I'd be interested in replicating your results, though I wish you could do it with Se rather than Au...
    Rafal Lukawiecki
    See rafal.net | Read rafal.net/articles

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