I may be a philistine here but, do these test curves matter??
Surely the only thing that matters is whether you can get good results with any given film.
I have seen many technical tests of Delta 400 that demonstrate many strange and curious unexplainable things - all I can say is that with my exposure/development regime I ALWAYS get the results that I want using Delta 400 with an EI of 200 in Barry Thornton's Two-Bath developer.
I'll have to check my curves for TMY-2. From what I can remember, the curve shape can change according to developer used and dilution. TMY-2 is one of the most flexible films in this regard.
Hi David - no you're not a Philistine at all. What is missing is the context. This thread was started by Mark in relation to the detailed testing he was doing with his developer (see his recent posting in the articles section regarding "Mocon"). In that testing context curves were of critical importance because he was designing a developer specifically to give the same qualities as XTOL. In previous tests with TMY-2 the curves looked different, so this thread was started in order to address a possible issue with the film itself, perhaps a batch issue etc.
Andrew - true the developer can make a difference, but most general purpose solvent developers should give similar curves under similar conditions. And D-76 is Kodak's "control" developer for all films. Therefore in addition to XTOL (which was the most important developer in this case because Mark was working on his XTOL-quality concentrate) I started with D-76/ID-11 which gave a very similar curve (see D-76 and XTOL curves posted above). I also tested it with Ilford DDX (see post earlier in this thread). In all cases the curve shape was the same.
Last edited by Michael R 1974; 04-16-2013 at 05:19 PM. Click to view previous post history.
Michael: Thanks for the reminder about this. I described the problem to Kodak, and a week later they sent me an email asking me to call them. That was a couple of weeks ago, and frankly, I'd forgotten about it. I'll call them tomorrow or Thursday and post an update.
Originally Posted by Michael R 1974
PE: I appreciate the explanation that curves like this occur with blending problems. One thing that surprises me is that Michael's latest curves are from batch 0169, and my batch was 0167. Two batches later and it hasn't been corrected? Or is a master roll divided into multiple batches, so that several batch-numbers would have the same issue? Anyway, Kodak is hurting financially, so I wonder if a borderline run was marketed to avoid the cost of a re-run.
Curves tell a lot. With a couple of other films, I could detect a slight wiggle in the middle. It was certainly not an issue, but told me that something was happening in the film: The curve was transitioning between emulsions.
The big question remains whether the batch is within tolerance or not. A 25 kg sack of rice doesn't always contain 25000 grams of rice. Note that your method of emulsion evaluation is more precise than what most folks here (including myself) ever did, at least privately.
Originally Posted by albada
I look forward to hearing what Kodak tells you about this issue.
Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.
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Mark - I couldn't remember - did you get this shape with 0166 also? In the curves I posted above I tested 0166, 0167 and 0169. They all seem the same. I'm really stumped. I'm very curious to hear what Kodak says. As Rudeofus says, perhaps these are still within spec.
You must remember that the number on the film does not relate to the emulsion used. Two different coating numbers may have used the same emulsion but may have been coated on a different date, or they may be the same coating date but from different master rolls. IDK. I don't keep track of that stuff any more.
Here's an update about Kodak's customer-support for this issue. For review, they sent me an email telling me to call a phone-number, which I just did.
The phone-number they gave me was general tech-support, probably in India, and they knew nothing about film. They gave me another number to call.
That number was tech-support in the USA (no accent anyway), but they also knew nothing about film. But the woman was helpful: she dug into some database and located a planner in the film division, and asked him to contact me by email. If he responds, that at least gets me into the film-division.
I'm surprised that my original report was not routed to their film-division. It sure is hard to contact anybody there.
Ron, do you know any employees there who would know where problem-reports should be sent?
I'll try to get something for you, but offhand all of my numbers are old.
Did you try the 800# on the film box? They used to have one there.
I just checked; there are only a couple of Internet URLs on the box now, and no phone number.
Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
Today, they emailed me about my complaint that this issue has not been resolved. Quote:
"We are sorry to inform you that we do not support Films please contact toll free: 1.800.698.0916 ext 16 or 800-847-8755 Ext 11".