Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,902   Posts: 1,584,552   Online: 1029
      
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    78
    Images
    14

    Pre-soaking FB paper?

    As developer carry-over into the fixer, and fixer residues in the finished print, are such problems, what is the reason that no-one pre-soaks FB paper in plain water before immersion in the developer. Would it significantly lessen developer activity in the emulsion? Or is diffusion of chemical into the paper base so fast that it wouldn't make any practical difference?

  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,435
    Images
    148
    Pre soaking won't help prevent carry over, and yes it will lessen developer activity so you'd need to develop for longer to get similar results, so njo benefit.

    Ian

  3. #3
    L Gebhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    NH - Live Free or Die
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,726
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    18
    You would gradually be diluting your developer and you would still have the carry-over to the other baths.

  4. #4
    cliveh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,677
    Images
    344
    So why do some people presoak film?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  5. #5
    cliveh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,677
    Images
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by noacronym View Post
    You presoak film to dissolve the anti-halation backing, and to bring the tank and reel to working temperature. It would be totally pointless to bust your tail to get your developer temperature on the money, and then pour it in to a cold taknk, or a hot one. So you presoak with water of the same temperature as the developer is going to be.
    Leaving out the anti-halation backing, why shouldn't you make sure paper is at the correct temperature before development if you do the same with film?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,096
    Where recommended, presoaking film is generally to help improve development uniformity, particularly with short development times, stand/semi-stand development, and when you can't get the film immersed in the developer quickly enough (for example, filling a multi-reel stainless tank through the daylight lid). Of course when tray shuffling sheet film, a pre-soak prevents the sheets don't stick together.

    Some people recommend a film pre-soak in all cases. Some don't. Ilford says it is not required. I don't think Kodak indicates it is required either (for roll film).

    These are not issues with paper development because 1) the paper is usually quickly immersed in the developer 2) paper development is virtually to completion (which would minimize or eliminate artefacts from uneven initial development), 3) agitation is generally continuous.

    Regarding temperature, one could simply bring the tank to temperature by tempering it in a water bath. With paper, there is no tank, just the paper, which would likely come quickly to the developer temperature once immersed, without having a meaningful effect on the developer itself as long as there is sufficient developer volume.
    Last edited by Michael R 1974; 04-08-2013 at 06:13 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,140
    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    So why do some people presoak film?
    Both Kodak and Ilford do not recommend that you presoak their films.

    You don't tug on Superman's cape
    You don't spit into the wind
    You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
    ...

    Some people are just contrarian by nature.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 04-08-2013 at 06:25 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  8. #8
    L Gebhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    NH - Live Free or Die
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,726
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    18
    Paper simply doesn't matter as much. As long as you follow the same procedure and the developer temp stays the same you will tweak the exposure and contrast to get the image to look correct.

    As long as you do things consistently between film runs it also doesn't matter if the film cools off the developer a bit. You would adjust your times to compensate. The key is consistency. I presoak in the Jobo but not in manual tanks because it brings the times between the two methods to almost the same.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,096
    Kodak probably would have recommended a pre-soak if it is required. As for the purple tint, you can soak that right out in washing.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Enroute
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by noacronym View Post
    There's no need to pre-soak paper--that's the bottom line.
    Not entirely, I pre-wet FB when I do 20x24's in my Jobo 3063 drum, it has eliminated the developing streak I sometimes had when I did not pre-wet.
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin