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  1. #11
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jpazzz;1495237]Hello Everybody,
    >Champlin 16 was intended to be used 1 to 9 with water or, preferably, a 10% sodium sulphite solution. Mike, does that take care of your concerns?
    Yes, at that dilution things start to make some more sense. The added sulfite stock can act as a restrainer, the HQ down to 5g/l, and the TEA would be keeping the pH in HQ's active range.

    >I would be tempted to go back to 777 except that I probably won't be developing enough film to keep it viable.
    >I know the Unblinking Eye thread on 777; in fact, the Instructions/time and temperature sheets that are posted there were my contribution to the discussion.
    >At that time, I didn't have a scanner, so one of the college secretaries scanned it for me.
    > I've always wondered why I wasn't given credit...Oh well, I wasn't one of the chosen few.

    I am pleased that you initialted the post, and honoured to have met you, however albeit online.

    >Mike, may I ask how you modified the 777 formula (Germain's if I remember correctly) given on the Unblinking Eye site?

    Sorry, I was posting from memory, and forgot the every day developing agent metol. I do remenber explicitly sourcing ppd and glycin for mixing this up. It is Germains I have experimented happily with.
    I have no leads on commercial sources of the 'real 777'

    >I'm off for four days... with the volumes from The Complete Photographer on developer formulation, involving Harold Harvey that is the best thing I've ever read on the subject.
    I have an old set of photographic encyclopedias from the mid 60's that has some Harvey articles in it. Not quite prescriptive enough to know what you get, but to understand why things go one way or the other as I recall.
    /QUOTE]
    my real name, imagine that.

  2. #12

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    Many years ago one of the major photographic magazines, either Modern Photography or Popular Photography, attempted to learn the identity of Tironamine-C. All they could find out was that it was a mixture of an amine with something else. So even if a source of chlorhydroquinone could be found the original formula for Champlin 16 couuld not be reproduced today.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 05-07-2013 at 10:24 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  3. #13
    Doc W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    The somewhere else is NOT The Darkroom Cookbook.
    Get hold of some photochemistry texts from the 1940's-1960's and you will find useful info upon which you can depend.
    British Journal of Photography was an excellent source for many years and they are relatively easy to find. The American Journal of Photography was OK, but not as good as the British.
    Also do a search on here and other forums. Mymemory says that within the past couple of years, 777 was thoroughly discussed and a close cousin formula divulged.
    Jim, I just started looking into "rolling my own" and the DCB (second edition) is my starting point. Is it really that bad? I am mainly interested in making relatively simple paper developers, fixers and washing aids.

  4. #14
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wilde View Post
    It all depends on the working strength dilution.

    100g of sulfite per litre is typical of d-76 etc.
    TEA is a less common strong alkali I used to use for making up home brew RA-4 developer. It was used at paper developer strength at something like 15mL per litre of working solution. Paper developers are usually more alkaline than continous tone film developers.

    50g of HQ is a lot per litre. Lith developers use as much as 12g/l working solution, when mixed with the part B alkali.

    There is also no formal restrainer. Sulfite at higher concentrations can be a restrainer as well as a mild alkali and an oxygen scavenger.

    So your draft formula might work well well diluted, if you can take the fog, but used as stock I have my doubts.


    I have played with home brew of what I consider to be something close to 777, and have calibrated its use. It uses glycin and ppd as developing agents. It works well, provided you can 'feed' it regularly, i.e. develop a few rolls of film in it every week. I think I found the formula in a discussion on The Unblinking Eye web site.

    It is a repleinished formula that is seasoned with a few scrap films if mixed fresh to start to provide the bromide restraining action. Because it is replenished, it contains some residual silver, and long lived developing agents known to not be too healthy. So if you go there, wear gloves.

    CHQ from my reading was expensive and rather volatile to make, and has faded from use.

    Only in the original formulation. The commercial D-76 would has less than 100g/L once it is in working solution.

  5. #15

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    Please keep us updated on this FG7 version, I am interested in trying it. Thank you.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    Jim, I just started looking into "rolling my own" and the DCB (second edition) is my starting point. Is it really that bad? I am mainly interested in making relatively simple paper developers, fixers and washing aids.
    People on the internet have a habit of slamming books for even tiny errors which affect 0.01% of the readership, if that, and this creates the impression that these books are riddled with errors. Both the Darkroom Cookbook and the Film Developing Cookbook are fine books with more formulas and fewer errors than any comparable resource you can find out there. I bet you can make a working print developer from 99, or more likely 100% of the formulas published for this purpose in any edition of the DCB.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  7. #17

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    Hello Everybody, We're just back from a very pleasant if exhausting week at the Standard Schnauzer Club of America's National Specialty Show. So, please pardon my delay in replying.

    Mike, I'm delighted to meet you, too. Where is Misissauaga,Canada? I. by the way, am in Galesburg, IL.

    RidingWaves, I'll try to keep you updated on my progress (or lack thereof), but it may take some ti8me before I get things organized.

    Cheers,
    John

  8. #18

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    Hello yet again. Reading over the reply I just posted, I realized that I really must proof read more cerafulyl! And, Rudeofus, I've kind of gotten the impression that there are, indeed, a fair number of nay sayers on the internet...some of them well meaning, some just taking out their aggressions. Even so, and bearing in mind that the Net is filled with misinformation, I do find it a valuable source for ideas.

    Cheers,
    John

  9. #19
    Mike Wilde's Avatar
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    John - Mississauga is a city of 600,000 or so people that abutts the west end of Toronto.

    Often this area is refered to in a larger sense as part of the GTA - Greater Toronto Area, which counts about 2.5-3million in population.

    I am about 20 minutes from downtown Toronto, as long as the trip is not made in rush hour.

    I have yet to google Galesburg, but have travelled through Illinois on holdays though the years. Not spectacularly different in the geography, though you might have a bit milder winters.

    The GTA is not as sprawling as greater Chicagoland.
    my real name, imagine that.

  10. #20
    eclarke's Avatar
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    The quest for the 777 formula led me to my little Germain book and I have used his finegrain developer for years as my standard (yes, I've done Edwal 12). And it's an excellent developer for all the films I use.

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