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  1. #11

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    I got away from using TRI-X when TMax came out. I made my comparisons and I like TMAX- 400 better. It showed me less grain.

  2. #12

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    1. Don't try to judge the graininess of a print by looking at scans online
    2. The judgement of what is fine grained vs coarse grained is subjective, and is also highly variable depending on the nature of the image
    3. The size of the negative relative to the print (ie enlargement factor) is probably the most important single factor

  3. #13
    whlogan's Avatar
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    ain't it the truth.... and Kodak want to quit making it !
    shame shame shame shame
    Logan
    Last edited by whlogan; 05-15-2013 at 09:23 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Bad spelling

  4. #14
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    Many people use Tri X because of its grain. It has always had a look all its own.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  5. #15

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    There are many pro photographers still using TriX, and many do so among a variety of other films and media. One of my favourite photographers is Michael Crouser, and he is a TriX user. He uses it in 35 mm, and enlarges up to 1 m. I am not saying that grain is not visible at that size enlargement, but I do believe that the content of the photograph is so powerful that grain is hardly an issue, with most of his prints. And as others have said, the TriX grain is beautiful, and seldom ruins the photograph. I would probably not use TriX for detailed landscapes with soft skies, but it can produce terrific "gritty" type nature images, and it is the de facto standard for B/W photojournalism, especially night or dusk photography.

    All the above said, it takes a good eye to tell the difference between the other good 400 emulsions and TriX, e.g. HP5+ and Neopan 400. If I didn't know which I had used, I think I'd find it hard to tell them apart on a print, unless it was on a comparison with identical subjects, lighting conditions etc. When a camera or a lens is good, you know what you can do with it, and you go out confident and do not worry about the equipment. The same is true for films, and TriX certainly falls in that category. If I have it in a camera, I'll shoot whatever with it, knowing the results will be fine one way or another. I would say the same for the Ilford and Fuji films. They may be slightly different in character, but they are good. Don't obsess over it much. Shoot what you can get, try to develop it to suit your objectives, and for the rest focus on the photography and image-making process rather than the materials or equipment. TMax 400 is also a great film, which I also often use. It is a bit more quirky, if that is the right word, meaning, one cannot stretch it as far as TriX or HP5+, and it is more sensitive for over- or under-development. If you really need fast speed and very fine grain, it may be a better film for your purpose, provided that you apply the necessary care to get the best out of it.

    This image of mine was made with TriX developed in caffenol H (Nikon F75 on 35 mm):

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/botanog...in/photostream

    This one was developed in TMax developer, from 120 (Pentax 67 II):

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/botanog...in/photostream

    I leave it for you to judge whether the grain kills them or not. I enlarged both to 12x16 on Ilford MGIV and was happy with the result.

  6. #16
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorff View Post
    There are many pro photographers still using TriX, and many do so among a variety of other films and media. One of my favourite photographers is Michael Crouser, and he is a TriX user. He uses it in 35 mm, and enlarges up to 1 m. I am not saying that grain is not visible at that size enlargement, but I do believe that the content of the photograph is so powerful that grain is hardly an issue, with most of his prints. And as others have said, the TriX grain is beautiful, and seldom ruins the photograph. I would probably not use TriX for detailed landscapes with soft skies, but it can produce terrific "gritty" type nature images, and it is the de facto standard for B/W photojournalism, especially night or dusk photography.

    All the above said, it takes a good eye to tell the difference between the other good 400 emulsions and TriX, e.g. HP5+ and Neopan 400. If I didn't know which I had used, I think I'd find it hard to tell them apart on a print, unless it was on a comparison with identical subjects, lighting conditions etc. When a camera or a lens is good, you know what you can do with it, and you go out confident and do not worry about the equipment. The same is true for films, and TriX certainly falls in that category. If I have it in a camera, I'll shoot whatever with it, knowing the results will be fine one way or another. I would say the same for the Ilford and Fuji films. They may be slightly different in character, but they are good. Don't obsess over it much. Shoot what you can get, try to develop it to suit your objectives, and for the rest focus on the photography and image-making process rather than the materials or equipment. TMax 400 is also a great film, which I also often use. It is a bit more quirky, if that is the right word, meaning, one cannot stretch it as far as TriX or HP5+, and it is more sensitive for over- or under-development. If you really need fast speed and very fine grain, it may be a better film for your purpose, provided that you apply the necessary care to get the best out of it.

    This image of mine was made with TriX developed in caffenol H (Nikon F75 on 35 mm):

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/botanog...in/photostream

    This one was developed in TMax developer, from 120 (Pentax 67 II):

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/botanog...in/photostream

    I leave it for you to judge whether the grain kills them or not. I enlarged both to 12x16 on Ilford MGIV and was happy with the result.
    Agree with what you said, except TMax 400 being tricky, and cannot 'stretch' it as far as Tri-X or HP5+. TMax is actually more forgiving with exposure, because it records 14 stops in a straight line. Can't do that with either of the other. But that's just petty details and hair splitting, really. TX and HP5 is, as you say, less sensitive to developing alterations, and that could be both good and bad.

    In the end, again as you say, it's the print that matters. It's best to see how we want the print to look first, tonality wise, test to see that the paper we use is capable of it, choose paper developer wisely, and then expose and process the film until we have what we want. Everything builds up to what fits on the paper, and has to serve that purpose, which is why technique becomes infinitely more important than materials.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #17
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusM3 View Post
    Tri-X is as grainy as you want it to be. Lighting, exposure, development and printing techniques are all interconnected to achieve a desired look. I believe Mr. McNew rates it at 200 and uses HC110 dilution E. With medium format, good exposure and development, grain is barely perceptible on 20x24 prints.
    100% agree with this.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Agree with what you said, except TMax 400 being tricky, and cannot 'stretch' it as far as Tri-X or HP5+. TMax is actually more forgiving with exposure, because it records 14 stops in a straight line. Can't do that with either of the other. But that's just petty details and hair splitting, really. TX and HP5 is, as you say, less sensitive to developing alterations, and that could be both good and bad.

    In the end, again as you say, it's the print that matters. It's best to see how we want the print to look first, tonality wise, test to see that the paper we use is capable of it, choose paper developer wisely, and then expose and process the film until we have what we want. Everything builds up to what fits on the paper, and has to serve that purpose, which is why technique becomes infinitely more important than materials.
    Yes, you put it more eloquently than I can. One makes the assumption that the output will be a silver-gelatin print, and pre-visualised in terms of tonality, texture etc. I wonder whether the majority of film users do darkroom printing, though. If the end goal is a scan (which cannot come close to extracting what the negative can offer, IMO), then one would probably choose TMax 400 because it produces the cleanest scan, and the curve can be adjusted any way you like. But even if that is the case, it is worth a lot more focusing on technique and vision rather than materials and equipment.

    I must add, that pre-visualisation is sometimes a luxury for me when shooting roll film. I try to make the best of the entire roll, knowing what kind of paper I'll likely use to print on, what I'll develop the film with etc. Then, once the film is developed, I try to make the best of each frame. If pre-visualisation was no part of the process, then I wouldn't have thought about what film to pack for where I am going and what I'd be shooting. But once there, I tend to forget about that and use what I have with me. I don't know whether that makes me lazy or pragmatic . As I said, if my Pentax or 35 mms have TriX loaded, then I'll shoot that until the roll is finished. I'd rather be shooting with any decent film than waiting for the perfect occasion to use a particular film. I have only one Pentax 67 II body, so I have to use it wisely, concerning colour vs B/W. With 35 mm or 645, it is less of an issue since I have multiple bodies or film backs.

    As a student, I had only a Nikon FM and little money, so when I wanted to do B/W, I had to finish the roll before I could do slides. I took part in both formats in the local photographic society's meetings, so I had to do a bit of both. My solution was to binge on B/W, and then stretch the printing out over a year or so. It would have been easier then if I could afford a second camera like nowadays. But it also gave me some insight into how especially the younger analogue shooters operate. Having slides in the camera means no B/W for today, and vice versa. So film choice was rather important from that perspective. One can choose to do only B/W, and use only one film type, of course. I am a bit restless, and have to do a variety of things, otherwise it gets boring for me. If it weren't for that, I'd probably be a better photographer and darkroom printer sooner. But I also think in the long run, having a broad experience base at some point enables one to make better choices that produce better results. Which is why it is worth discussing what TriX is like, for instance.

  9. #19

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    I remember making tests in a photo studio, shooting the beautiful models in the late 70's and early 80's and enlarging our 35mm pics to 11 x 14 for our portfolios. I liked Tri-X in Microdol X developer. The owner liked Tri-X with D76. Wow-his stuff was grainy but he liked it. I chose T-Max when it came out because I liked it even better, especially developed in T-Max developer. Such good times. Make your own tests is always the way to go.

  10. #20

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    8cmx8cm Rollei CAmera

    I know it's out of topic my question but can't find where to start the thread since I just got in. My question is:
    Is there a negative film scanner for a Rollei 8cmx8cm film? These are negative films from 1950 and 1960 and I'm planning to design a book with those pics..
    Any help?
    If so, please reply to tadeopub@yahoo.com since is always on.. thanks!

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