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  1. #11
    clothesontheline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertratt View Post
    What you intend to do sound like fun but you had better do a "dry run" first. There's no end of bad things that can happen in a darkroom. You need to get the drill down pat. I suggest doing it once with a couple of kids the get the hang of it all. And I think you need to bum some of the things you will need. It is called "in kind" donations -- donations of goods rather than money.
    You had better test the pinhole camera first, too. The last think I want to do is discourage you but it is all a bit tricky at first.
    Can you explain the process for the "dry run"? And dont worry, I realize I should practice b4hand to make the prints turn out right.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by clothesontheline View Post
    Can you explain the process for the "dry run"? And dont worry, I realize I should practice b4hand to make the prints turn out right.
    I think what our helpful newshound suggested was just that... Give a practice session to at least a couple kids to see how long it takes to do everything... So you can be well prepared to execute your plans when the day comes.

    Your idea is ambitious - and it can be done - but you will work hard and so you must have the routine practiced.

    My earlier idea to do photograms... keep it in the back of your mind. It is one-third as much work and twice as likely to succeed. I do not want to discourage you from the main ambition. You CAN do pinhole paper 5x7 negatives and make contact 5x7 prints for 25 people in one day. Three packs of 25 sheets of paper will give you enough extra to practice and cover mistakes.

    But in an emergency, if things don't work out as planned. Photograms are extremely easy.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesantacruz View Post
    that means you get the 5 'negatives' and put them in dektol at the same time... but first dunk one in then the other consecutively , (with gloves on of course)... and move them around with your gloves on... then... after 2 minutes... move them over to the water wash (seriously, don't waste time on stop/acid wash)... leave them in for 2 minutes moving them around, again with your glove on.... then, switch them over to the fixer. once out of the fixer, you need to wash them for 5 minutes in water...

    keep your paper in the black bag, and in the box at all times. when you are ready to make the positives. you place the paper under the negative as mentioned, and then expose... then put that in the box, get another paper out of the safebag, and reclose lid... again under the negative, and into the box (not the black bag) close lid, etc say for the five in the group. then take all these five prints, and develop them together, as above. You will have to do this five times (around)... remember to be very careful with your paper, and only use it under the red/safelight.

    good luck.
    To do 5 at once, am I going to need extra large trays, or is it okay if some of the prints overlap/are on top of each other in small trays? Would I move the 5 prints between steps all within a short period(15-20 secs), or put one print in, wait about 30 seconds , and then put another print in, and move to the next step according to how long the prints have been at each step?(sorry if that was confusing)

    You mentioned "the box" while talking about exposing the negatives, what exactly were you referring to?

    -Thanks

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    I think what our helpful newshound suggested was just that... Give a practice session to at least a couple kids to see how long it takes to do everything... So you can be well prepared to execute your plans when the day comes.

    Your idea is ambitious - and it can be done - but you will work hard and so you must have the routine practiced.

    My earlier idea to do photograms... keep it in the back of your mind. It is one-third as much work and twice as likely to succeed. I do not want to discourage you from the main ambition. You CAN do pinhole paper 5x7 negatives and make contact 5x7 prints for 25 people in one day. Three packs of 25 sheets of paper will give you enough extra to practice and cover mistakes.

    But in an emergency, if things don't work out as planned. Photograms are extremely easy.
    Hey Bill, Thanks for the advice! At this point, I'm not sure how involved the kids will be in the process. They may be involved with constructing the pinhole cameras/placing the photo paper/ exposing it, but I doubt think the kids will actually be doing very much of the work to develop it. They may be shown the process as an example at first, either under a safelight or just with the lights on. Also, I will have extra time to work on the prints outside of the times for camp. I would just hand them out the next day(its a week long deal)

    Since you seem to know your stuff, do you know if it matters how long you wait between exposing the photo paper to light, and when you actually enter the darkroom and begin the process?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post


    What cameras are we talking about? If they're 35mm, then contact prints will be very small, i.e 24x36mm. If they're large format, what film do you plan to use? With pinhole, reciprocity failure makes a big difference.

    You can also do pinholes with paper as the negative. Exposures are much much longer and the contrast can be crazy-high, but it works and it has the clear benefit that you can do the development under safelight, so there is no part of the process that requires total darkness. Look at this thread on LFPF.

    Multigrade is excellent paper. If you want something cheaper but perfectly good, look at Arista papers from Freestyle or Kentmere (also made by Harman/Ilford and about 2x as sensitive, therefore better for pinhole).
    Few Answers/Questions:

    1) I Plan on using homemade pinhole cameras, partly constructed by the kids but supervised for excellence. I also will be using large oatmeal boxes and/or other large containers to print on 5x7 paper photo prints.

    2) What do you mean by "Arista" papers? Are they still great quality, or is there a noticeable difference between those and Ilford multigrades?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by clothesontheline View Post
    Since you seem to know your stuff, do you know if it matters how long you wait between exposing the photo paper to light, and when you actually enter the darkroom and begin the process?
    You can wait for a reasonable length of time, but it is best if you are consistent.

    If an hour or two elapses between exposure and developing, the results will be slightly different than if you develop immediately afterwards.

    I have exposed paper during one evening and developed it the next day, but when you do that you lose the advantage of being able to quickly learn from your mistakes and adjusting the exposure accordingly.

    If you aren't going to be sharing the fun of watching the images appear in the trays, you might look around for some developing tubes and a rotary agitator.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #17

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    The trays don't have to be big, and i wouldn't invest much money in them, if it's a one time thing (remember, you can't use these again to put food in, but maybe for strorage). You should use two hands when you put the prints in. One with a glove to slosh the prints around... which you would put in and submerge with your gloved hand.... once submerged (2-5 seconds).. put the other prints in, it's okay if they overlap for this project, as long as you continue to use your hand to move them around... use your 'ungloved' hand to handle the dry prints.

    as for the 'box'... when you receive the paper... it will come in a box, and in this box the paper will be in a black bag... the bag can have pinholes, and so make sure you keep the paper in the bag, in the box... but while you're in the darkroom, you can use the box, as a quick safety box... so while you make prints from the paper negatives, (one at a time) place your already printed sheets in the box, outside of the bag... this way, when you turn on the light to expose your negative you will have somewhere to hide the already exposed prints.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    If you aren't going to be sharing the fun of watching the images appear in the trays, you might look around for some developing tubes and a rotary agitator.
    I'm not sure I know what you mean by "sharing the fun". If I develop the each group's negative print in groups(4-5 a tray) , it might be hard to fit 20 kids in a darkroom and let them see as the photos appear. I may be able to let each group see/and or help as their individual positive copies develop.. is that what you had in mind?

    Also, what are developing tubes and rotary agitators?

    -Thanks!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesantacruz View Post
    The trays don't have to be big, and i wouldn't invest much money in them, if it's a one time thing (remember, you can't use these again to put food in, but maybe for strorage). You should use two hands when you put the prints in. One with a glove to slosh the prints around... which you would put in and submerge with your gloved hand.... once submerged (2-5 seconds).. put the other prints in, it's okay if they overlap for this project, as long as you continue to use your hand to move them around... use your 'ungloved' hand to handle the dry prints.
    So, I'm guessing you put move the prints on to the next step according to what order you put them in at first?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by clothesontheline View Post
    Hey Bill, Thanks for the advice! At this point, I'm not sure how involved the kids will be in the process. They may be involved with constructing the pinhole cameras/placing the photo paper/ exposing it, but I doubt think the kids will actually be doing very much of the work to develop it. They may be shown the process as an example at first, either under a safelight or just with the lights on. Also, I will have extra time to work on the prints outside of the times for camp. I would just hand them out the next day(its a week long deal)

    Since you seem to know your stuff, do you know if it matters how long you wait between exposing the photo paper to light, and when you actually enter the darkroom and begin the process?
    The extra time will help! Will 5 kids work one day/ 5 the next? Or is it more like Photo Day Wednesday and camp's out Friday?

    MattKing says results will vary with time from exposure to development, but that would probably not be a problem if you develop in the evening.

    The "box" people are talking about is the pack the paper comes in with black wrapping inside to keep the paper safe. You want to "keep" the paper safe from accidental exposure, in case someone walks in on you, it's better if there's only a few sheets ruined. If the whole bag gets exposed it would be "pretty bad" especially on a tight budget.

    Arista is a house brand offered by Freestyle a small outfit in Los Angeles which caters to photo educators and often their price is less than the alternative. But I checked your price is pretty good for brand name paper.

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