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  1. #11
    Nikola Dulgiarov's Avatar
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    Gerald, I am well-aware of the dangers in working with organic synthesis, Max Gergel's autobiography (Excuse Me Sir, Would You Like to Buy a Kilo of Isopropyl Bromide) has some vivid examples of reactions going awry and unexpected problems occurring. My interest in the aforementioned synthesis is theoretical, but I would like to see if it could be implemented in reality. I work in sub-gram quantities, under a fume hood, respirator and filters as per OSHA regulations (just that cost as much as the school's whole budget on chemicals last year ), so my safety shouldn't be your concern Whether I'll pursue the task any further is still vague

  2. #12
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    Have you absolutely ruled out that Photographer's Formulary won't ship glycin to Bulgaria? It might be worth phoning them to see if there is any way to get it.

    Alternatively if you investigated whether the chemical is legal to mail or fly with, perhaps if you know someone going to the United States or Canada soon, they could have the chemical shipped to them and then have it forwarded to Bulgaria (or bring it home on their flight).

    Photographer's Formulary will ship glycin internationally, to Canada at least, so it's worth investigating. I buy 100 grams every few years to mix up nine litres of Ansco 130 stock solution. (And no, nothing else is like a glycin developer, so while the market has spoken, it has not spoken correctly from my perspective.)
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  3. #13

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    other thread about glycin: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/4...-glycin-3.html
    and some info from last post maybe interesting for you:
    I recieved the article over the computer network of the local univerity library. Her is the part, which relates to the synthesis of glycin:
    ... Vater CJ. pr. Chem., 1884 [ii], 29, 286) obtained this compound by digesting one molecular proportion of monochloro acetic acid with two molecular proportions of p-aminophenol and 20 parts of water. we found that a better yield was obtained by using molecular proportions of p-aminophenol (3g), monochloroacetic acid (2,6g), and sodium acetate (4g) in aqueous solution. The pink solid which separated was collected and crystallised from water, from which it separated only on stirring in a somewhat floculent form. (Found, N= 8,42. Calc., N= 8,39 per cent). ...

  4. #14
    Nikola Dulgiarov's Avatar
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    Yes, this is an excerpt from Meldola, et.al./1917. However, this is the only reference in the article as to procedure, and it's vague at best, as it only refers to "digesting" but no there is no further mention regarding temperature or time. A Kodak patent refers to a German one, in which it is outlined how to produce glycin, but I've had no luck finding it - it is German Patent 383,190, abstracted in Chemisches Zentralblatt, vol. 24, part I, page 1592. It refers also to an article by L. Galatis in Helvetica Chimica Acta 4, 574-9, (1921), which I don't have.
    PhotoJim, I will in fact be purchasing glycin, regardless of whether I succeed or fail in its synth, which more or less a proof of concept I'm interested in. I was referenced to dealers in Europe who offer glycin at acceptable prices. I don't know yet....

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikola Dulgiarov View Post
    Gerald, I am well-aware of the dangers in working with organic synthesis, ... I work in sub-gram quantities, under a fume hood, respirator and filters as per OSHA regulations
    Unfortunately there are others who are not as careful that may attempt a synthesis.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #16
    Nikola Dulgiarov's Avatar
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    Yes, I was just reminded of the fact that I am not alone in such experiments. So, please do not view this as an encouragement to do things you're not fully acquainted with, as mr. Koch has so put it in a previous post. My primary concern is safety, success is far back in the list. If you want to use glycin, I recommend you buy it . After all, the price for the synth. reagents will get you enough glycin for the next decade . If in the end I am successful (a goal that seems distant so far), it will prove a concept, and nothing further. As a matter of fact, said concept has been proven, many times over, by the chemists at PF

  7. #17
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    To take this on a moderate detour, I buy 3-4# a year from PF and store it in the freezer. It has lomg keeping qualities this way compared to keeping it on the shelf, stays white for a long time..

  8. #18
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Nikola, Chloroacetic acid is extremely toxic even via what appears at the time to be mild skin contact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroacetic_acid

    The Formulary makes their own Glycin as the market is so small and the cost is so high. A trained lab worker can make it in a jiffy, but accidents do happen!

    If you insist on going ahead, I suggest the 20+ volume set by Arnold Weissberger entitled "Synthetic Organic Chemistry" or something like that. It gives the exact method for making just about any common organic chemical. I studied those books for hours during my thesis work learning how to make some of the esoteric starting materials I needed for my research work.

    Whatever you do, I strongly endorse what Jerry said, BE CAREFUL! You are playing out of the league of most everyone and are courting a serious problem. I wish you the best and remind you that if there is no market, then the chemical is not made, or if made it is very expensive.

    PE

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Nikola, Chloroacetic acid is extremely toxic even via what appears at the time to be mild skin contact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroacetic_acid
    I work in a lab and have worked with Trichloracetic acid in the past often. Actually one time I had a co worker drop and break a 100 mL bottle of it outside of the hood and had to help clean it up. I am surprised that Chloroacetic acid is so much more toxic and am glad it was not that I had to clean up. The LD50 amounts to just a few mL absorbed through the skin.

  10. #20
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Trichloroacetic Acid is used as an antiseptic by some dermatologists. It is not very toxic except it is good in promoting skin healing after minor surgery.

    PE

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