Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,991   Posts: 1,524,215   Online: 1119
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3

    Amidol with Benzotriazole as the only restrainer?

    I am about to return to printing after something of an absence. I have historically used Ansco 130 with benzo substituted for Kbr, and now want to try Amidol now that I'm a better printer, and have been perusing formulae for a starting point. I prefer cool-toned images, and have been curious about trying benzotriazole as the only restrainer in an amidol formula, but seem to find conflicting information about it's compatibility. I have found Fein's Amidol formula of course, which has no bromide at all, just benzo - BUT I've also read (Darkroom Cookbook) that Benzo does not function at the mild ph of an Amidol developer. Is Fein's poorly formulated? Or does the extra Sulfite bring up the ph enough to activate the benzo? ... but then again what about all that citric acid added?

    Can someone straighten out this conflicting information for me? - I'd love to omit the Potassium Bromide for the coldest tones, but would like to find an effective starting point for a formula before squandering precious Amidol!

    Thanks!!

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,769
    If you are just returning to printing I would suggest you stick with the Ansco formula. Amidol is tricky and has some drawbacks. It is very toxic, unstable, expensive, and stains everything, clothes, hands, everything. Both the stock and working solutions have a very short life compared to other developing agents.

    Amidol is not very sensitive toward bromide. It is the only developing agent that will work in acid solution. To help the problem of oxidation the stock solution may be acidified with lactic or citric acid which also act as restrainers. If formulated properly an amidol developer will produce a pure black tone. However a properly formulated developer using other developing agents can do the same thing. Considering all the downsides to amidol I would suggest not using it. There are several well known developers which will produce a cool black tone if that is your desire. Suggested formulas are Kodak D-73 and D-158, Foma FV-112 and Gervaert G.252. They use the more common developing agents metol and hydroquinone.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 05-31-2013 at 08:28 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    138
    I use Amidol. I just love it! Amidol and Ilford WT is the most beautiful combination I have seen for enlarging paper. I use it with Lodima for contact printing as well. If you visit the website michaelandpaula.com you will find articles, recipes and a forum with a lot of Amidol information.

    http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/products/ have everything you need.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3
    It's great that people have such different opinions about amidol, but does anyone have a response to the question?

    J

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,769
    You don't say which paper you intend to use. Most Amidol developers are formulated for slow chloride contact papers such as the much loved Kodak Azo. IIRC correctly there is only two companies (Foma and Lodima) still making such papers.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 05-31-2013 at 10:30 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,557
    Jarin - it is going to be difficult to get a solid answer since many Amidol formulas seem to be person-specific tweaks and such.

    One suggestion Formulary makes regarding its "Weston" Amidol kit is to start with a very small amount of KBr, test carefully for fog and increase the concentration slowly until there is no fog. BZT could probably be added but again - you will really have to test for yourself with your paper and your developing times etc. and determine what the effects are.

    Among other things the cold/warm tone will depend on the paper and also the developing time. For example, typically longer development times will result in slightly cooler tones.

    I agree with StigHagen you may be best off looking at michaelandpaula.com for information on how people are using Amidol developers.

    Wanting to try Amidol because you are a better printer seems like strange reasoning, but I'm all for people trying stuff so just be careful. As Gerald pointed out this stuff is toxic and nasty. It also has a very short tray life.

    Note the strongest proponents of Amidol are generally contact printers using graded chloride-type papers.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,769
    Several people on APUG have recommend Ethol LPD for its ability to produce cool tones.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    East Coast
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    109
    Photographer's Formulary have a short paragraph about this appended to the spec sheet for TAF-1- a similar organic restrainer, It's pretty adamant about not using an organic restrainer like benzo* with Amidol.

    http://stores.photoformulary.com/ima...n1/03-0147.pdf

    the reference is to Weston's Amidol's BB compound which supposedly contained benzo.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,043
    I've used amidol a couple of times, and I found no magic in it. There are formulations that work very well with enlarging papers. A literature search would be worthwhile before settling in a formula. The last time a bought amidol, the material was quite impure. Commercial 2,4-diaminophenol is available for about $100 per 100 grams. That would be cleaner, but i doubt that it is worth the expense. Amidol developers deteriorate quickly, and a liter will generally not last the printing session. My experience was that the developer badly stained everything except the image (which was clean and quite nice), but that may have been largely due to the impure material. It has been many years since I tried LPD, but my recollection is that the image was quite close to amidol. It's also expensive, but it might be a good alternative.

  10. #10
    c6h6o3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    3,167
    Images
    6
    If citric acid is part of the formula for amidol working solution, you get great tray life out of it. The solution will be gone from carryover loss before it becomes depleted.

    Most people who use amidol mix it from dry chemicals for each use. You don't need to keep a stock solution. Michael Smith is still using amidol that was put in jars in 1903.

    Yes, it stains like crazy. You also must use a plain hypo (sodium thiosulfate) fixer or you risk turning the prints pink. If the amidol is from the big group purchase of Chinese chemistry we bought some years ago, it's very impure and stains even worse than the English amidol you get from Artcraft. And, it ruins the fixer so you have to one shot that. Still, it's worth all the trouble to me because of the excellent dmax I get.

    Try M.A. Smith's formula and you'll see that the short tray life myth is just that.

    Benzo as a substitute for KBr? I have no idea. However, if you like cold toned prints, amidol is probably not for you in the first place. It shines at producing warm tones which can be adjusted by varying the KBr.
    Jim

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin