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  1. #11

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    I'm no Pro, but I would over try and over-expose a little and then bleach back. It should create a very contrasty look.

    When you bleach you turn the silver back into a halide and since fixing removes halides (undeveloped) fixing might remove them from the print whereas toning in selenium would convert the halides into a stable state, you might try redeveloping in selenium after bleaching or simply washing.

  2. #12
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    You certainly are getting some blue tones, what are you using, the colour is fantastic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostman View Post
    Hi Bob,

    Thank you very much for your input, your examples are wonderful. It is funny how different people work. Much like food and cooking, we develop a relationship with the materials and 'get inside' how they work and think, or feel.

    I have made a few prints where I used a bleach, sepia, blue tone sequence, which i love. I used my usual dilution for bleach and sepia to warm the high and mid tones. The blue seemed to hit the mid to dark tones which is exactly what I was after.

    This was on Agfa MC 118 FB

    Attachment 69709

  3. #13

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    That's what I thought! Thanks Bob!

    Another question for you; What do you think about bleaching fogged prints?

  4. #14

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    I was given a test pack to try from Fotospeed. It's BT Iron Blue Toner.

  5. #15
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Not much, I prefer fresh paper from Ilford.
    You could get away with some of the more exotic methods, like lith, or dev, bleach re develop and so forth.
    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    That's what I thought! Thanks Bob!

    Another question for you; What do you think about bleaching fogged prints?

  6. #16

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    Ghostman,

    I worry about the 4th step in your toning sequence; using "very dilute" sepia toner. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Using a very dilute bleach is one thing, but you want to make sure you've redeveloped everything you bleached away, right? That's my feeling. With sepia toner, I've always been told to tone "to completion" - whether it was bleached fully or partially. Toning to completion with sepia toner diluted 1:100 doesn't seem possible.

    I give my prints a 10 minute wash between bleach and sepia toner - however I usually bleach all the way back.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Buonocore View Post
    Ghostman,

    I worry about the 4th step in your toning sequence; using "very dilute" sepia toner. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Using a very dilute bleach is one thing, but you want to make sure you've redeveloped everything you bleached away, right? That's my feeling. With sepia toner, I've always been told to tone "to completion" - whether it was bleached fully or partially. Toning to completion with sepia toner diluted 1:100 doesn't seem possible.

    I give my prints a 10 minute wash between bleach and sepia toner - however I usually bleach all the way back.
    Hi Marco,

    Thanks for the input. I don't sepia 'to completion' as the papers I used are so warm that even just bleaching can bring out warmth. I really just run the print through the sepia (5-10 seconds). They then get rinsed and put in Selenium for a few minutes. Wouldn't this Selenium bath stabilize the silver?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostman View Post
    Hi Marco,

    Thanks for the input. I don't sepia 'to completion' as the papers I used are so warm that even just bleaching can bring out warmth. I really just run the print through the sepia (5-10 seconds). They then get rinsed and put in Selenium for a few minutes. Wouldn't this Selenium bath stabilize the silver?
    As I mentioned in my first post, you don't want any rehalogenated, (bleach rehalogenates the silver to male it possible for some toners to work, like sepia), silver left in your prints after indirect toning. Indirect = toners that use bleach.

    You really should fully redevelop your prints in the toner, because the halide state of silver left undeveloped is not stable. What you can do is to be more careful with your bleach. Bob's mention of Bill Schwab's technique to bleach and tone in stages is a great way to accomplish subtle toning.

    I like to use sepia too, but I dilute the bleach and use the toner at full strength. What I use now is Moersch MT-3 variable sulfide toner, and I dilute the bleach 1+50, and bleach until I see the highlights starting to change.
    I then rinse under running water for five minutes, and dunk in the toner, at full strength, for two minutes. The effect is really subtle and lends just a hint of beautiful warmth to the highlights. If I feel that I need more highlight warmth, I do like Bob and Bill and bleach again. But I always full re-develop in the toner according to Wolfgang Moersch's instructions (2 minutes to complete).
    If I follow with selenium I get warmer results yet, and maroon toned shadows. A nice combination.
    Last edited by Thomas Bertilsson; 06-06-2013 at 10:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

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  9. #19

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    Ghostman,

    By toning to completion, I mean that you want to redevelop all the silver that was bleached out. If you find you are getting too warm of a tone with your current process, I would suggest bleaching for a shorter amount of time or by bleaching with an even more dilute solution. I understand that warmtone papers bleach very fast. But you would always want a full strength sepia bath. I suppose that selenium afterwards would "stabilize the silver", but wouldn't you just be effectively lightening the overall print density by bleaching and not redevloping? Usually that's not desireable. A side effect of this overall lightening might be a warming of the image tone. If I use farmer's reducer, or something similar, I find the print tone takes on a slight warmth: a straw colour. I wonder if you're not seeing this in your finished prints?

    For the record, I use a bleach approximately 1/20th strength for Ilford Warmtone. That would be 2.2g Potassium ferricyanide and 2.5g potassium bromide in 2000ml water. Times vary, but it's in the realm of 45 seconds. That will warm up my highlights. If I felt it was too warm, I would add another litre of water to the bleach to dilute it further, making it more subtle.

    Good luck!

  10. #20
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I agree with Marco and Thomas about toning to completion

    I also know of a lot of photographers **editorial/fashion** who would use a non completion tone as suggested , it does give a distinct hit of tone, but the prints would change over time.

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