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  1. #21
    Andy K's Avatar
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    I'm never trying to make anyone 'feel' anything. I'm just trying to make photographs the best I can. If others then like them too, thats a bonus. I photograph for me, not for others.
    Last edited by Andy K; 01-19-2005 at 07:47 AM. Click to view previous post history.


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  2. #22
    Maine-iac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy K
    Thanks guys.

    I tried inverting the tank but I usually only develop one film at a time, according to the tank instructions I should only use 350ml if developing one 35mm film which means the tank is only half full, and it seems strange to invert because i would effectively be removing the film from the developer? My negs came out with what looked like 'tide marks' or water marks along the length of the film when using inversion. (see attachment)
    It's always better to fill the tank with developer, even if developing only one reel (in a two-reel tank, I presume). This will prevent streaks on the film.

    The old rule of thumb was expose fully and develop minimally. That doesn't exactly hold true in all circumstances and with all films, but it's a good general rule.

    Try two inversions and a sharp tap on the sink every 30 seconds during development.

    Larry

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by TPPhotog
    I think worrying is natural when something is important to us.
    Don't misunderstand me, but Some (myself included) spend too much time testing films and developers instead of taking pictures.
    But I worry, too when the film is important to me, and I experiment a lot still. But not as much as I have up until a few month ago. I have tried almost all films on the market and 10 developers...now settling on Rodinal, HC-110 and XTOL (that beast).

    Morten

  4. #24

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    well I'm going to disagree with the "fill the tank brigade". None of you must use a Paterson System 4 tank, which basically forces you to leave an air gap, which allows the developer lots of room to move around when you invert the tank. Next time you buy bottle of 100% orange juice, let it sit so all the lumpy bits settle, then turn it upside down a few times and see how it mixes. Have a glass of it then let it settle again. Now turn it upside down... bet it mixes much quicker. Same thing with the developer... sort of. The air gap lets the developer get away from the film and new stuff at the film once you flip it back over. Having said that, there are people that use full tanks and get perfect results, there's people that twirl (Paterson style) and those that use half full tanks and get perfect results. I personally have never used more developer than needed (I do mix about 50ml more than the tank suggests just to be certain it's covering the film), and I've never put a spare reel in my 2 reel tank when developing one roll (I usually want that dry for my next roll)

    My one question for Andy is are these prints or scans?

  5. #25
    Andy K's Avatar
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    At the moment these are negative scans (using an Epson Perfection 2480) with zero correction except resized for upload, I only bought an enlarger on sunday and it has yet to arrive (see here). I did consider it being the scanner, but having seen it scan the night shots perfectly comapared to the day shots, I have dismissed scanner related problems.


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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by modafoto
    Don't misunderstand me, but Some (myself included) spend too much time testing films and developers instead of taking pictures.
    But I worry, too when the film is important to me, and I experiment a lot still. But not as much as I have up until a few month ago. I have tried almost all films on the market and 10 developers...now settling on Rodinal, HC-110 and XTOL (that beast).

    Morten
    Sorry Morten, I didn't mean to intamate that there is anything wrong with your posting I was just musing and it was more aimed in Grahams direction in a friendly way as a passing comment

  7. #27
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    Add me to the "fill-the-tank brigade". Using stainless reels and tanks, I fill the tank to the brim to avoid the creation of bubbles during aggitation. But, if developing only one roll in a two-reel tank, I put that reel at the bottom, and then add an empty reel as a spacer. Aggitation for me is 180° inversion, combined with a 1/4-turn rotation at each inversion, using two hands. Each inversion takes a bit over a second, so I get about 4 inversions per 5 seconds of aggitation time.

    Although many good suggestions have already been posted, allow me to add my 2¢.

    In general, I see negative contrast as being a combination of the inherent contrast of the original scene, modified by exposure and development (including aggitation technique). The ideal, I believe, is to achieve fairly consistent density in one's negatives, along with appropriate contrast. Procedurally, it's helpful to keep development and aggitation techniques consistent, so the results can be predictable. If the procedure needs to be changed to achieve good negatives, change (fine-tune) only one element at a time.

    Additional development time (or extra aggitation, or higher developer temp) will increase contrast. To compensate for what would appear to be additional density in the negative, a corresponding decrease in exposure can be used up front. Decreasing the exposure, however, also risks loss of shadow detail, but that's a metering-related issue.

    If, for example, one was shooting an entire roll under somewhat dreary conditions, you might choose to under-expose by one stop in anticipation of increasing development by 15% or so to boost contrast in the negatives. If, however, the roll contains mixed scenes with both dreary and brightly lit scenes, it's probably better to keep both exposure and development "normal".

    Another way to boost contrast in the print (or, scan) is to increase the contrast grade of the paper or VC filter (or adjust contrast curves in the scan, along with adjusting "Levels" such that the scan includes a true black).

    Bottom line, I think it is best to examine each element in the overall process separately, and then together. That is, check the negs to be sure they are of the proper density and contrast, adjusting processing to get there. Then, examing scanning or printing techniques to ensure the presentation matches the neg, adjusting contrast and print exposure as needed (or curves and levels in the scan).
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  8. #28
    Ole
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    I'm in the "Never Fill A Paterson Tank Completely" camp. For one roll of film I use 150% of minimum volume, but that's because I've lost the little clip that holds the reel in place. If I use the minimum, the top edge of the film WILL be dry at some point. For 35mm film I put the second reel in too, unless I want to develop a third film that day.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  9. #29
    Will S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy K
    Graham,

    Look at the difference in these two attachments. I get the muddy look of the first 75% of the time. I want the look of the second all the time! Not that I use any real system other than my own judgement, if the zone system helps me do that (and I am not aware of having used it yet), so be it.
    I know this is digital, but you might try looking at the histogram when you scan the negative to see where most of the data is. If you have silverfast there is a densitometer built in to that can also provide some insight.

    Using the method for determining film speed outlined in Les McClean's book or in Barry Thornton's articles might be helpful. I think that most people find that their film is over-rated at the manufacturer's ISO. I shoot HP5+ at EI200 and TMAX400 at EI320 for example. Thornton says that most people underexpose and overdevelop.

    See:

    http://web.archive.org/web/200402162....uk/unzone.htm
    http://web.archive.org/web/200402162....co.uk/pfs.htm
    http://web.archive.org/web/200402020...uk/devtime.htm
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  10. #30
    Andy K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    I know this is digital, but you might try looking at the histogram when you scan the negative to see where most of the data is. If you have silverfast there is a densitometer built in to that can also provide some insight.
    This is where you've lost me, lol! All I know how to do is scan, rotate and resize the negs! I have no idea what a histogram etc. is!

    Thanks for the links though!


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