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  1. #31

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    hi noble

    i always use expired tmx and have never noticed any change in sensitivity &c, even expired in 2003/2004 ( and exposed recently ).
    enjoy your film, even if it sell by date is sooner than you had hoped.

    maybe 10 years ago i was pricing tmy ( 400 ) 4x5 film locally in case i was in a crunch ( as you do )
    and the local boutique photo shop that had an agfa sign ( but no one there even know who agfa was )
    the shop that was a toyo dealer ( as told to me by MAC / toyo ) but the store manager didn't even know what toyo was ..

    they had a box of film that was expired 7 years before ( 2006 ). the price on the 100 sheet box was $100 .
    when i asked to see the manager to see if i could get a price break seeing it was well-expired ( i don't mind shooting expired film and still do it often )
    the fellow wiped the thick dust off the box, looked at the exp date, looked at me and said " nope, its $100 "
    the same film, fresh i purchased for 65$ ( including shipping from b+h) the next day ...

    i guess there is short date, and there is well done

    - john

  2. #32

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    Noble. I fail to understand the anger in your writing.

    I think you need to take a more current and reasoned approach. Or, shop in person if you need "long dated" film. Had you receieved outdated film I'd really feel your pain.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Films now have much shorter expiry dates than 20 or 30 years ago, so does food and many other items, it's part of ISO 9002 compliance. So expiry dates are now quite short a few years less then when I took up photography but the films still behave perfectly for years past the modern expiry dates.

    I've made some great images on short dated HP5 bought from the US and marked short dated on the box well after the expiry date (4 or 5 years), in fact I still use some innthe UK and the results are no different to newer HP5 film I've used in Turkey.

    Ian

    I would be careful with those food expiry dates. If you are talking about things like raw chicken don't assume that expiry date is a "soft" number. There have been plenty of outbreaks of food borne illness to warrant extreme caution in regards to hygiene and disposing of certain past date food items.

    When you purchased your "short dated" film did they tell you it was short dated prior to purchase and did they discount the price? I think I wasn't clear. I use "short dated" film. But when I buy it it is disclosed prior to purchase and significantly discounted. I was asking about the definition of "short dated" and the ethics of not disclosing short dated film and selling it for full price. If someone doesn't disclose what you consider short dated and doesn't discount the price significantly to you think that is a problem or would you not even notice or care?

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    they had a box of film that was expired 7 years before ( 2006 ). the price on the 100 sheet box was $100 .
    when i asked to see the manager to see if i could get a price break seeing it was well-expired ( i don't mind shooting expired film and still do it often )
    the fellow wiped the thick dust off the box, looked at the exp date, looked at me and said " nope, its $100 "
    the same film, fresh i purchased for 65$ ( including shipping from b+h) the next day ...

    i guess there is short date, and there is well done

    - john
    Lol. Yeah I wish everything in life was that clean cut. I never really paid much attention to expiration dates. When I ordered film that didn't mention the expiration date at time of sale I have no recollection of getting any that didn't have at least a year till expiration. And when I got short dated stuff it was indicated before sale and deeply discounted. This is the first time I've encountered this gray area (no pun intended).

    That really is astonishing that someone would take a hard line on film from 2006! I've bought new old stock equipment that I haggled over. And I mean like 30 seconds of haggling on the phone. Digging in your heels over 2006 film?! That store owner is crazy.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Noble. I fail to understand the anger in your writing.

    I think you need to take a more current and reasoned approach. Or, shop in person if you need "long dated" film. Had you receieved outdated film I'd really feel your pain.
    No problem. I already said the film is in the freezer and is going to get used. I haven't returned anything, called the store, or written a stern letter to the BBB. I just started this thread asking people's opinions. This is uncharted water for me and I'm just trying to find out what people's experiences are in this regard. If people have not been in this specific situation that's fine. Just say you don't know but please don't characterize this as me saying I got two rolls of film that are expiring two months apart and love one and hate the other. I am a rational human being.

  6. #36
    photopriscilla's Avatar
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    You have raised an interesting point! I have my film in my fridge but I have never thougth about what temperature to keep my fridge at. Hmmm....is this a real concern? Does anyone know?

    Priscilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Croubie View Post
    Personally, I'm more concerned about how it's been stored than what the date says.
    My few local stores around that still sell film all have them in a fridge, some have all their stock in that fridge from the date that it come in, some have a fridge or freezer out the back.
    I was in Singapore last week, where the average temp is 24-31C (75-88F) year-round, and the coldest ever on record is 19.4C. I ran out of 100B+W film and went to find some. A few shops around Peninsula Plaza had some, mostly only Slide films and one had Neopan400. They were all just sitting on a shelf. Eventually I found some Delta100Pro, also sitting on a shelf (they did have a fridge there, but it was dedicated to 100' rolls and 4x5").

    Frankly, I'd rather trust my local shops, where I know it's been sitting in a fridge all its life (besides a bit of transport), I'd have no qualms about buying it near- or even over-date from them.
    Those shops in Singapore, however, the date may be a few months or even a year in the future, but I'd be more concerned about buying from them (especially the Silde films).

  7. #37
    Dr Croubie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by photopriscilla View Post
    You have raised an interesting point! I have my film in my fridge but I have never thougth about what temperature to keep my fridge at. Hmmm....is this a real concern? Does anyone know?

    Priscilla
    As far as I know, film decay is generally proportional to temperature, ie the colder the better. Any fridge sitting at 4C should be fine. Most of my film is in the freezer at home, actually, the only stuff in the fridge are used rolls awating dev, half-used rolls, and bulk-loaded rolls. And Polaroids, do not freeze Polaroids.
    But if a shop keeps their rolls in a fridge, I'm fine with buying them up to expiry (and I'll take any discounts they want to give, but it won't stop me buying them).

    Every film's different, of course, it's the colour that fares worse with colour shifts (if you're one of those "colour is critical" people then you have to be careful about expiry dates more). I just chuck old films in my 'lomo' pile, mostly 135 negs just sit on my shelf near the heater, specifically to bork their colours.
    Silde films I only ever buy new and throw in the freezer straight away, because I shoot 'keeper' landscapes mostly on Velvia.
    B+W films might just add a bit of fog and lose EI (neither of which I mind so much), so out-dated films just go in the freezer too, haven't had a problem yet with too much fog ruining anything.
    An awful lot of electrons were terribly inconvenienced in the making of this post.

    f/64 and be there.

  8. #38
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Films now have much shorter expiry dates than 20 or 30 years ago, so does food and many other items, it's part of ISO 9002 compliance. So expiry dates are now quite short a few years less then when I took up photography but the films still behave perfectly for years past the modern expiry dates.

    I've made some great images on short dated HP5 bought from the US and marked short dated on the box well after the expiry date (4 or 5 years), in fact I still use some innthe UK and the results are no different to newer HP5 film I've used in Turkey.

    Ian
    My experience is similar.

    I'm working through some Tri-X 400 in 120 dated 2002 that as far as I can tell has no loss of speed or usability.

    About a year ago shot some panatomic that was probably 3 decades old that turned out gorgeous.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #39

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    Films do not expire on a specific date. They age depending on the conditions they experience. They are like people. People don’t die right when they reach their life expectancy and neither do films.
    However if you lock a person, or a film, in a hot car in mid summer neither may survive a day.

    PS I also have DEVELOPED 30 YEAR OLD Panatomic that was EXPOSED 30 YEARS AGO and it printed fine. The film had a little fog but you could not see it in the prints.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by photopriscilla View Post
    You have raised an interesting point! I have my film in my fridge but I have never thougth about what temperature to keep my fridge at. Hmmm....is this a real concern? Does anyone know?

    Priscilla
    I believe Agfa stored their uncut rolls at -10C. For shorter storage any refrigerator set to a temperature for proper food storage 0C to 4C should be OK.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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