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  1. #21
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Aristotelis,

    I am using FP4 all the time, developed in Rodinal, and have had up to 16x16 inch prints made virtually without grain from 120 negs. I have even had APX400 negs printed in that size without any major grain.
    If you're looking for fine grain, try Kodak Tmax100, or Fuji Acros. They have very fine grain, and are both good films. Tmax 100 in Rodinal is a very good combination. I would also like to recommend Agfa APX100. Its grain is not as fine as the other two (marginal difference) but it has a beautiful scale of tones. It is also cheaper than the Kodak and Fuji.

    Hope that helps,

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #22
    Flotsam's Avatar
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    I've been using Efke R50 in a rollfilm back on my 4x5 for still lifes. I have been very impressed with the tone and smoothness. Luckily, I have a good supplier in APUG sponsor JandC.
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  3. #23
    titrisol's Avatar
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    Ari, just posted an image on EFKE 25 (35mm) and emailed you a detail of it, scanned @2400 dpi
    Mama took my APX away.....

  4. #24
    arigram's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your responses.
    I have a bunch of undeveloped FP4+ shot at 64asa and have been testing them with Rodinal (1-100), D-76 (1-1), Ilfosol (1-9) and Perceptol (1-1).
    Also I have tried a roll of Delta 100 rated at 50asa and developed it with D-76 (1-1).
    What a difference a developer makes!
    So far the favorite combination seems to be the FP4+ with Ilfosol.
    This has been the only developer to be offered in my city and that's why I
    never took it seriously. The only reasons they stock it is because its liquid, comes in a small bottle and is very quick acting. Which is good for the amateur photographer. But I didn't know that it is also a very nice developer!
    All my tests where with an elargment at 30x40cm (12x16") with a 13x17cm(5x7") paper. Ilfosol showed absolutely no grain no matter how well I looked and had very nice shapness as well.
    D-76 looked just slightly sharper but the grain was distinct.
    Perceptol was very nice too but I also need to test a bit more.
    Furthermore I got the last two packs of it which where OLD (they were priced in drachmas).
    I need to try out Delta 100 more, but I fear that it will be hard to find in Greece anymore, if at all, so if I am going to order I might as well go with a slower film.
    I also bought a couple of Agfa APX 100 films but they where expensive (four euros in contrast to two and ninety for FP4+) so unless I fall in love with them and find a good source they will probably be the last. I haven't tried them out yet. I am thinking of trying Rodinal Special and Ilfosol with them.
    I also have a bottle of Rodinal Special whcih I can easily find but I find no times for slower than nominal speeds and their times are very small so I am afraid to try smaller. Unless I change the dillution or the temperature but that would be tricky to calculate precicely.

    I have some questions then:

    1) Should I make up my own chemicals? I have the book, I have the expert's help, I have the source, I am just thinking if it is practical to do it. I would like to be almost self-sufficient not relying on ordering all the time and also to mix something that I cannot find. Is there an Ilfosol-like recipe or something better? Should I bother with Pyro considering I am looking for a developer that gives fine grain and good sharpness. I am looking more at tonallity than sharpness. Mixing my own devs sounds like fun.
    2) If Ilfosol with FP4+@64asa seems to be fine for enlargments up to 30x40cm and considering I won't make any larger ones, would PanF or Efke give me more definition of detail?
    3) If I go with a slow Efke or PanF, how do I tame the contrast? What (non-exotic) developer or technique should I use? Would a film like that be good for the contrasty light of Greece?
    4) Does temperature variation between dev-stop-fix cause a noticable grain increase?

    And yes, during sunny days there is enough light to handheld FP4+ even at 64 asa with a good apperture smaller than F5.6 or even F8.

    The whole point of this research is to find the finest film for my MF camera. I don't need or want to go to LF, I just need a good film to use with a tripod.
    Last edited by arigram; 01-26-2005 at 06:27 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  5. #25
    titrisol's Avatar
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    Seems you found your combo
    I'd stick to FP4-Ilfosol for the time being, use it, explore it and enjoy it.
    Concentrate in improving your images rather than testing.

    Temperature variations between dev-stop-fix-wash can produce reticulation, in which the gleatin swell and contracts too fast, producing a "fish-scale" like pattern. The temperature changes have to be drastic though. It is best to keep all the temperatures within 2-3 C
    Mama took my APX away.....

  6. #26
    BarrieB's Avatar
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    My suggestion : If you are going to use a tripod so as to get ' best quality ' why not go to 4" x 5" Large format, you will then get QUALITY AND with movements better technical image quality as well, you will use less film and enjoy photography more.

  7. #27
    arigram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarrieB
    My suggestion : If you are going to use a tripod so as to get ' best quality ' why not go to 4" x 5" Large format, you will then get QUALITY AND with movements better technical image quality as well, you will use less film and enjoy photography more.
    Because like I said already twice Barrie what I want is to make the best out of my Hasselblad. I do not need or want another camera, especially a LF one. I am just asking for help with slow films and developers.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  8. #28
    rogueish's Avatar
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    I don't mix my own so my opinion may not count for much.
    Everyone I've talked to (here and elsewhere) who mix their own, swear by it. You can make fresh stock whenever you need it, can mix up stuff you can't find locally and can fine tune to your likeing. When you pay for shipping powders are lighter than liquids so you may save some money there.
    I am currently looking a scales myself for mixing my own alt process chemicals

  9. #29
    Maine-iac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    D-76 or Rodinal and I am kinda dissapointed at the results.

    What do wise photographers suggest I do?

    FP4+, which is my favorite conventional-grain film, is better developed in something like PC-TEA or one of the home-brew Phenidone-Vitamin C formulas that Pat Gainer, myself, and others have used and advocated. You can find those formulas in other threads on this site.

    Fuji ACROS and Ilford Delta 100 are both contemporary T-grain (or equivalent) films which have a much finer grain structure than conventional films. Either, developed in one of the PC formulas will give you much finer grain than the combination you've tried.

    Larry

  10. #30
    Ole
    Ole is offline
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    As you found, Ari, the combination of Ilfosol and FP4+ is stunning and very hard to improve on.

    I haven't tried any of the PC-developers yet, I'm having too much fun (and good results) with old Metol and/or pyrocat developers.

    I have tried Delta 100 and TMax something in Ilfosol, and see no reason to continue on that route. Finer grain, possibly, but the tonal scale is not to my taste. I'll stick with the "traditional" films.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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