Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,474   Posts: 1,570,978   Online: 810
      
Page 5 of 21 FirstFirst 123456789101115 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 202
  1. #41
    TheToadMen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Netherlands, Europe
    Shooter
    Pinhole
    Posts
    1,599
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Robert James View Post
    Kevin, if you already have Rodinal and want finer grain while using it, I know of two ways (there are surely others): Salt and Sodium Sulfite. I have never tried the Sulfite, but I do use salt occasionally. Use sea salt or table salt without the iodine. 30g/l will do it. I have read that salt may cause dichroic fogging with modern films, but I haven't experienced it yet. You may also lose some film speed with the salt FYI since from what I understand the salt acts as a restrainer. Maybe Ian can shed some light on that. Salt is a good option for you to try since it is easy to get and it works. Good luck.
    A good way to test yourself if this is a good method for you.
    Shoot a whole film on a single scene "at once" (all 36 frames). If possible put your camera on a tripod and use a camera with motorwind. Take a scene with some contrast & details. Preferably under circumstances with a steady lighting during shooting (avoid days where the sun comes & goes because of clouds, etc.).
    Then cut the exposed film in half and develop each part separately (with & without added salt, or whatever the factor is) to see what the effects are. Keep all the other factors (temp, agitating, developing times, ....) identical to eliminate a combination of effects. This way you're certain what factor causes what deviations in results.
    Can you see any difference? And do you like it?
    "Have fun and catch that light beam!"
    Bert from Holland
    my blog: http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl
    my Linkedin pinhole group: http://tinyurl.com/pinholegroup


    * I'm an analogue enthusiast, trying not to fall into the digital abyss.
    * My favorite cameras: Nikon S2, Hasselblad SWC, Leica SL, Leica M7, Russian FKD 18x24, Bronica SQ-B and RF645, Rolleiflex T, Nikon F4s, Olympus Pen FT, Agfa Clack and my pinhole cameras.

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Agfa used to recommend mixing up Rodinal with a weak sulphite solution if you needed to prolong the life of a working solution this also helps give finer grain.
    As Ian points out mixing the Rodinal with a sulfite solution will improve the grain. Years ago a 9% solution was recommended as the resulting developer would be close to the recommended sulfite content for such developers as D-23 and D-76. However, it now known that maximum halide solvency occurs around 80 g/l so a weaker solution would be better. When using this method development times should be shortened by approximately 20%.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  3. #43
    polyglot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,324
    Images
    12
    If you're going to mix in solvents like sulfite to soften the grain then it's not Rodinal any more and you might as well use a solvent developer.

    Softening the grain with sulfite is one way to make an image smoother, but the grain won't get smaller. In fact, you can make resolution worse because the silver-solvent effects act a bit like a low-pass filter, i.e. it spreads things out a bit. D76 stock for example makes things very mushy, especially compared to Rodinal. Totally different look.

  4. #44
    viridari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina [USA]
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    330
    Images
    22
    Ah, even this fine forum is not safe from Internet trolls. They are easily ignored.

    It works for me. No golf balls. If you can't figure out how to make stand development work for you, that's not a good reason to be rude to your forum mates. I hardly think you'd behave thusly in person. Shame!

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,964
    The "softening" effects of sulfite are dramatically overstated by people. One must look at the formation of image silver at microscopic levels to see why. Studies have shown the differences in true acutance (excluding edge effects) to be immaterial in many cases. Where differences do exist, they are significantly smaller than the corresponding differences in granularity, and the pH of the developer has a lot to do with granularity. Furthermore, the effects of sulfite levels in a developer formulation are very dependent on the film. Myths abound when it comes to image structure and definition. The subjective impression of sharpness is heavily influenced by edge effects and granularity. One study by Richard Henry showed that Rodinal produced relatively pronounced edge effects with the films tested, and increased granularity. It is the combination of these two effects that likely gives people the sense of sharpness when it comes to Rodinal.

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by viridari View Post
    Ah, even this fine forum is not safe from Internet trolls. They are easily ignored.

    It works for me. No golf balls. If you can't figure out how to make stand development work for you, that's not a good reason to be rude to your forum mates. I hardly think you'd behave thusly in person. Shame!
    Thin skin, perhaps? Calling someone a troll because your technique is questionable makes you feel better? And don't forget: The Size of Grain is NOT related to the degree of shaking. Just by this statement one quickly realizes that you don't understand the subject. You want fine grain out of a coarse grain film? Use a fine grain developer. The least amount of time in the developer, the smaller the grain will be.

    When you wash your hands, do you scrub your hands against each other or do you simply leave them soaking in soapy water for 30 minutes without moving them in hope to get them clean? Stand-washing technique? The same goes for developing film: The whole point of shaking the can is to remove exhausted developer to make way for fresh developer. By not shaking the can you jeopardize the contrast as well as the evenness of development. You're basically killing the film's native contrast curve. What a bad thing to do.

    Out of the 10,000 films that I have successfully developed, it took me 3 stand development trials to come up with garbage negatives. Never again!

    If anything, you should thank me for being direct and because I have given you GOOD advice. But no, you prefer to call people trolls just because you don't get the free ego stroke you're expecting. Rather sad.

  7. #47

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    US
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,060
    Maybe he meant me, for my trite 1-sentence post. But I maintain I see no redeeming quality to Rodinal. Just because it has been around for 125 years and has a fan base on that account, it's still a grainy mess of a developer. Granted it's a general purpose film developer, but lye soap is a general purpose soap too. At one time it was a bath soap, shampoo, laundry and dish soap.

  8. #48
    MattKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Delta, British Columbia, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    12,788
    Images
    60
    Are we in danger here of getting into a religious discussion?

    Stand or semi-stand development is a special purpose technique. It only serves well as a general purpose technique if the affects it adds to negatives (tone compression and edge effects) are what a photographer seeks.

    And unlike Tom1956, I like Rodinal, in the hands of some photographers. It has a fairly distinct look. It doesn't suit me though.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #49

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,057
    The granularity of a film is essentially fixed during its manufacture. This is why Kodak can specify a RMS granularity of each of its film. The granularity can be reduced somewhat by the choice of developer. Obviously a solvent type developer will produce finer grain.

    Now the perception of grain is influenced by several factors among them the Gamma or Contrast Index of a negative. The lower this value the less grain perceived by the human eye. When film is stand developed it is usually developed to a lower Gamma than normal and so will appear less grainy.

    There is only one reason to use stand development and it is usually described in manuals on the Zone System. That is to reduce the overall contrast of a contrasty subject to match the tonal scale of a particular paper. I can't think of a single subject in photography that is the source of so much speculation, unfounded claims and general folderol than stand development.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,057
    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    If you're going to mix in solvents like sulfite to soften the grain then it's not Rodinal any more
    At one time when films were coarser grained than now it was fairly common practice to use them with added sulfite. Besides Agfa Rodinal another example would be Edwal FG-7 which recommended this practice. I don't think the people at Agfa or Edwal would have accepted your statement that their developer became something else. There was a time when I used Rodinal-sulfite, as it was called, quite frequently. I really liked the tonality it gave to my negatives.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin