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  1. #1
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    Kodak Hardener substitute?

    I am about to make some prints to experiment with LegacyPro Brown toner, and to also try the Kodak Polytoner substitute that Kodak published a few years back. They both recommend using Kodak F5-A hardener after toning. Can I use the hardener that is packaged with Kodak Rapid Fix as a substitute? I have plenty of that on hand.
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    I'd use it in a second.

  3. #3
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Davis View Post
    I am about to make some prints to experiment with LegacyPro Brown toner, and to also try the Kodak Polytoner substitute that Kodak published a few years back. They both recommend using Kodak F5-A hardener after toning. Can I use the hardener that is packaged with Kodak Rapid Fix as a substitute? I have plenty of that on hand.
    I don't think so - at least not on its own.

    As I understand it, the Part B hardener is designed to work with the Part A fixer, and not on its own.

    And I don't believe that there are any dilution instructions out there for the Part B hardener on its own.

    There is an APUG thread somewhere where the use of hardener is discussed and, if I recall correctly, PE recommended just using hardening fixer - so you could mix up a batch of the Kodak Rapid Fixer with the hardener.

    In my case, I use some of the older, regular hardening Kodak Fixer for post-toning hardening of my RC prints.

    It does mean more washing though.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

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    I use Legacy Pro brown toner as well as Photographer's Formulary's sepia toner. I know they both suggest using hardening fixer or hardener after toning but I don't.... Never had any issue with softening of emulsions. I'd just skip it....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  5. #5
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    To follow up on this, after talking to Kodak, I can use the part B from the Rapid Fixer diluted 1:13.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

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    MattKing's Avatar
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    Greg:

    Thanks for this info.

    I'm surprised at the dilution though. That seems to be much more concentrated than when it is used with the Rapid Fixer.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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    Well Kodak is the gospel. Do it their way.

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    MattKing's Avatar
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    Greg (or anyone else):

    Have you any information about the capacity of the diluted working solution hardener, whether it must be used "one-shot" and what storage life the diluted working strength hardener can be expected to have?

    Thanks,
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #9
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    No, I haven't used it yet. I am just doing some planning.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

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    I have never used hardener with brown toner but I also am careful with it while toning. Unrelated to that make sure you throw the print in the hypo clear BEFORE you arrive at your desired tone. It's very easy for brown toner to keep going. Sometimes it's possible to take advantage of this by hitting it with hypo clear a bit before toning to where you want and then throw it in the print washer to let the toning taper off to where you want it to be. Plan on screwing a few prints up before you get the hang of it. Also buy sodium sulfite from art craft so you can just make a one time stop bath cheaply.

    I also prefer selenium toning prints before I brown tone so that the selenium keeps things under control. However if you did not do this at the end of original printing you're going to have to do an intermediate wash between se and polysulfide toning.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

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