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Thread: Film Pre-soak

  1. #11
    Rolfe Tessem's Avatar
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    I don't think Kodak and Jobo actually say "don't pre-wet when using Xtol". What happened was that Xtol came out after rotary processing was already popular so Kodak did the testing and published times that were good without a pre-wet. So yes, that is the official manufacturer's recommendation because those are the tests they did.

    Prior to that, Jobo itself tested a huge number of films and recommended a five minute pre-wet in order to bring rotary development times into line with the times recommended for inversion processing with intermittent agitation. There is nothing magic about Xtol -- the same technique works with it as well.

  2. #12

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    xtol always suggested ix-nay on the soakpre-ay ..

    i usually presoak because i am bored and a creature of habit and don't ever use xtol ..
    besides sometimes i pour the AH dye into my spent developer and watch it vanish, its fun

  3. #13

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    I'm sorry, T-Max RS Developer

  4. #14

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    95% of my Bridge photography is with my 3 Hasselblad 2000 FCW's I would NEVER trade them for anything.

  5. #15
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    xtol always suggested ix-nay on the soakpre-ay ..

    i usually presoak because i am bored and a creature of habit and don't ever use xtol ..
    besides sometimes i pour the AH dye into my spent developer and watch it vanish, its fun
    Sorry John:

    j109 - the Kodak XTol data sheet - is silent on the issue of pre-soaking when it comes to roll films or when it comes to small tank, large tank or rotary processing. With respect to sheet film and tray processing, j109 expressly recommends a pre-soak: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe.../j109/j109.pdf

    And for the OP, j86 - the Kodak TMax/TMax RS data sheet - is silent on the issue of pre-soaking when it comes to roll or sheet films or when it comes to small tank, large tank, rotary processing or tray processing: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/j86/j86.pdf
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #16

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    The problem is very complex. Kodak could not figure out the problem. I sent them negatives and sample prints. They have no idea.

  7. #17

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    Jobo started recommending the presoak when they discovered that using it allowed customers to use published times for small tank inversion development. They confirmed this with multiple films and developers. When Kodak developed (pun not intended) Xtol they tested and published time for continuous agitation that did not include the presoak. I've done TMax with Xtol in the Jobo with and without the presoak, once the process is calibrated I could see no difference. I decided years ago to stick with the presoak.

  8. #18

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    Has anyone really looked into how presoaking affects development. You would think that prewetting would make the emulsion more permeable to fluids, but that the accumulated prewet solution would also slw down penetration since the developer has to displace the existing liquid. How does presoaking affect development time to a given gamma, overall contrast, and things like that? We really need good experimental work, not guesses.

  9. #19

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    How is your water being filtered?
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  10. #20

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    For maybe 20 or 30 years I didn't presoak, and in fact had never heard of it. This for 35mm and 4x5 in an inversion tank. My agitation was vigorous for the first minute after a couple of sharp raps on the bench to dislodge airbells which I have not experienced since the 1960s. Then remaining agitation every minute thereafter. I gradually moved over the years to less frequent agitation after the first minute to control contrast.

    When I started to use 120 size (Neopan 400) I had a few random little circles of slightly reduced density, visible in prints in clear sky only (maybe 0.5mm diameter leading to a few mm on an 8x10 print). I became very particular about rapping the airbells and agitating fairly vigorously but I still got them. I started to use presoak, 2 min fairly vigorously, followed by dev as usual. The problem went away. I still don't have a good explanation, but it works for me.

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