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Thread: Old Rodinal

  1. #11
    ath
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    Two days ago I used the Rodinal I opened in 1998. No Problem.
    Regards,
    Andreas

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorff View Post
    It is not uncommon to hear of 30 to 40 years old Rodinal working as when new. My own experience is with 25 yo stuff, still have some of it. What would be awesome, is someone finding old full bottles pre WWII and developing film with that!

    I have found Parodinal to be long-lived as well, provided it is prepared with the correct chemicals at the correct concentrations. My oldest samples are now two years, and showing no signs of deteriorating.

    Edit: BTW the reason why shaking up the bottle helps, is maybe because it re-dissolves some of the crystallised aminophenolate, i.e. it replenishes the active developer in solution. Good Rodinal must always have a few crystals lying in the bottom of the bottle, and when decanting into other containers, one must transfer the crystals too. Otherwise, the developer will crash sooner. If you suspect oxidation, one should not use only the top layer of the liquid. Diffusion in a viscous liquid such as Rodinal is very slow, and it can happen in reality that the replenishment simply does not take place via diffusion over the time frame you mention through a liquid column a few inches high.

    Rodinal proper contains at least two salts, namely potassium sulphite and potassium aminophenolate, in addition to potassium hydroxide. There could also possibly be chloride and bromide, depending on the formula. Two things are important: The aminophenolate in solution must be close to or exceed 0,5 moles/L, and the sulphite must stay in solution. To get this, sodium cannot be totally replaced for potassium, and the most one can get away with is ca 1 part of sodium per one part of potassium. I don't know what the current R09 formula contains exactly, but I am pretty sure it is based on potassium chemistry. The DIY formulas such as in the Darkoom Cookbook suggest using 4-aminophenol hydrochloride, and sodium hydroxide with potassium metabisulphite. This results in an additional amount of chloride in the developer, but that is of course greatly diluted in use. In the Parodinal formula, it is not chloride, but acetate that forms. In metonal (from metol), it is sulphate. In practice, I have found as yet no effect on how and what forms the main constituents are added, as long as they are there in the final product. In other words, after all reactions have taken place (acid-base neutralising etc) there should be excess hydroxide, sulphite and aminophenolate. The extra baggage of chloride, acetate or whatever else, is mostly inconsequential. When using sodium hydroxide, the sulphite must be potassium. And vice versa. One should not filter home preparations. Rather, one should strive to get the quanities of chemicals correct, and leave the precipitate to form and stay there, as it is responsible in part for the longevity.

    For what it's worth, the representative who posts here from ADOX has just posted that the CURRENT formula for Adox Adonal is the original EXACT formula of Rodinal, and that the newer R09 formulas from other companies are similar but not EXACTLY the same formulation, he also said that soon they will be able to label the US bottles as Rodinal again cool huh?
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  3. #13
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    It's long overdue, my head starts spinning each time this topic comes up and I end up NOT KNOWING what I am currently using myself.
    R09, Adonal, Rodinol, Calbe, Adox, AGFA

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!
    -
    "Nice picture, you must have an amazing camera."
    Visit my photography blog at: http://helino-photo.blogspot.com

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helinophoto View Post
    It's long overdue, my head starts spinning each time this topic comes up and I end up NOT KNOWING what I am currently using myself.
    R09, Adonal, Rodinol, Calbe, Adox, AGFA

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!
    haha, yea I felt like that until I learned that Adox had bought the patent a few years ago and at least could feel confident that Adonal was probably the closest, and this confirmed it, he said 3 years ago he couldn't say that others weren't using the same formula for sure (so I assume there were some patent things going around allowing others to make the exact formula as Adox was or something to that effect, who knows) but now, for sure, ADOX Adonal is the ONLY true Rodinal formula

    They also have the "Old Rodinal" which is the formula from before my mother was born (pre 1950's), I've always been curious to try it, but no one can tell me the difference... haha
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    SNIP ... (so I assume there were some patent things going around allowing others to make the exact formula as Adox was or something to that effect, who knows) ...
    No more rumours please Stone!!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by miha View Post
    No more rumours please Stone!!
    oh ok, but I wasn't saying "I heard" I was saying "I assume" based on the phrasing of how the ADOX rep said things, before 3 years ago, there were more companies making the official Rodinal formula, he said it, that's not a rumor, and I was only supposing the reason was about patents, who knows the real reason, I'll leave it to you to find out then.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    oh ok, but I wasn't saying "I heard" I was saying "I assume" based on the phrasing of how the ADOX rep said things, before 3 years ago, there were more companies making the official Rodinal formula, he said it, that's not a rumor, and I was only supposing the reason was about patents, who knows the real reason, I'll leave it to you to find out then.

    Mirko never said that. Agfa Rodinal was only made in one facoty in Vaihingen, it still is, sold as Adonal. He did said that 3 years ago there were several companies selling Rodinal made in Vaihingen, under different names.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by miha View Post
    Mirko never said that. Agfa Rodinal was only made in one facoty in Vaihingen, it still is, sold as Adonal. He did said that 3 years ago there were several companies selling Rodinal made in Vaihingen, under different names.
    Sorry I miss-spoke, when I said "made" what I meant was "buying the chemical and slapping their sticker brand on it" ... I did mean that, but obviously that's not what I typed... sorry.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #19

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    No problem Stone, I'm just saying that one needs to be precise when stating things otherwise rumours start to spread.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by miha View Post
    No problem Stone, I'm just saying that one needs to be precise when stating things otherwise rumours start to spread.
    You are correct sir and I welcome those kinds of corrections
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

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