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  1. #11
    Paul Glover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Can you use an amber 85B in place of an orange filter? Will it have similar effects? Obviously not exact but similar?
    My understanding is that this won't work with B&W film the way an orange filter would. The color correction filters (80*, 81*, 85* and so on) alter the color temperature, but pass all wavelengths. Contrast control filters like #8, #25A and such are cut off filters, so some wavelengths are greatly diminished or blocked altogether.

  2. #12
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Glover View Post
    My understanding is that this won't work with B&W film the way an orange filter would. The color correction filters (80*, 81*, 85* and so on) alter the color temperature, but pass all wavelengths. Contrast control filters like #8, #25A and such are cut off filters, so some wavelengths are greatly diminished or blocked altogether.
    If it doesn't block wavelengths then why does it have a filter factor? It must lock some light? Or am I confused, I don't recall but I want to say 1.5 stops, it takes 500T film to 320 speed for daylight use.


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  3. #13
    polyglot's Avatar
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    The correction filters have a small amount of density, so a warming filter will take (say) 20% of the blue light out; that's a probably-imperceptible change on B&W but enough of a change to get the hue right on colour film. The filter-factor on those is really small, like 1/3 stop.

    A strong yellow filter though, might take 95% of the blue light out. It will cause a bigger sky/cloud contrast, but it will also cause the destruction of any details that are visible only in blue. The filter factor is much larger (2 or 3 stops), reflecting the much greater attenuation.

  4. #14
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    The correction filters have a small amount of density, so a warming filter will take (say) 20% of the blue light out; that's a probably-imperceptible change on B&W but enough of a change to get the hue right on colour film. The filter-factor on those is really small, like 1/3 stop.

    A strong yellow filter though, might take 95% of the blue light out. It will cause a bigger sky/cloud contrast, but it will also cause the destruction of any details that are visible only in blue. The filter factor is much larger (2 or 3 stops), reflecting the much greater attenuation.
    Thanks Polyglot, guess its time to order an orange filter... Ugh...


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  5. #15
    David Allen's Avatar
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    The effect of a polarizer varies with the angle of light.

    Deep red filters produce (for my taste) overly dark skies and too much exaggerated contrast.

    My suggestion would be to use a Wratten 12 (minus Blue) filter. This has a strong effect on skies and only has a nominal filter factor of +1. If you look at some of Ansel Adams' books you will find that he used this filter a lot because of its relatively low effect on other colours.

    Bests,

    David
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  6. #16
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Allen View Post
    The effect of a polarizer varies with the angle of light.

    Deep red filters produce (for my taste) overly dark skies and too much exaggerated contrast.

    My suggestion would be to use a Wratten 12 (minus Blue) filter. This has a strong effect on skies and only has a nominal filter factor of +1. If you look at some of Ansel Adams' books you will find that he used this filter a lot because of its relatively low effect on other colours.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
    Thanks, I've seen a lot of good orange filter images, I haven't seen any recent written 12 images.

    We'll see, I have other priorities to pay for so it will be a whole, more time to research...


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  7. #17
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    The uneven sky when using a polarizing filter is more conspicuous with wide angle lenses, and sometimes insignificant with long lenses.

  8. #18
    David Allen's Avatar
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    That's the great thing with the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) filter - it does the job that you want it to do without screaming out 'this photograph was taken using a strong filter'. It is probably one of the most unknown and underused filters available to the B&W photographer.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de

  9. #19

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    Wratten 12 is not exactly unknown. It has long been one of the most common yellow filters used by serious practitioners, particularly for snow.

    What is missing in this discussion is the type of light, the colours in the scene, and particularly the saturation of those colours. This is especially true when trying to darken skies. The colour and saturation of the sky is everything, and goes a long way in determining which filter to use, if any. So without the particulars of any scene, it is meaningless to say an orange filter is too strong, or a yellow #12 would be better or #8 or #15 or a red #25 or #29 etc.

  10. #20
    David Allen's Avatar
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    With respect, I wasn't suggesting that the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) was unknown but rather that I have met many people who have not heard of it and do not appreciate what a useful filter it is and how, in many instances, would actually give them a better mor natural effect than the more common Red, Orange and yellow filters.

    Whilst I appreciate that prevailing colours are an important consideration, my experience (when I used to do landscape photography) was that the effect of the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) was highly predictable, consistent and required far less exposure compensation than any of the oranges and reds.

    For people who are unfamiliar with using the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) filter the key point to understand is that, whilst it looks like many other yellow filters, it is specifically designed to effect blue light. As such it will alwys produce relatively consistent results which include darkening skies (even if they appear grey because there is still a great deal of blue light present), reducing both general and shadow-specific haze and deal very nicely with the high levels of blue light in both snow and high altitude photography.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de

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