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  1. #21
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Allen View Post
    With respect, I wasn't suggesting that the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) was unknown but rather that I have met many people who have not heard of it and do not appreciate what a useful filter it is and how, in many instances, would actually give them a better mor natural effect than the more common Red, Orange and yellow filters.

    Whilst I appreciate that prevailing colours are an important consideration, my experience (when I used to do landscape photography) was that the effect of the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) was highly predictable, consistent and required far less exposure compensation than any of the oranges and reds.

    For people who are unfamiliar with using the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) filter the key point to understand is that, whilst it looks like many other yellow filters, it is specifically designed to effect blue light. As such it will alwys produce relatively consistent results which include darkening skies (even if they appear grey because there is still a great deal of blue light present), reducing both general and shadow-specific haze and deal very nicely with the high levels of blue light in both snow and high altitude photography.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
    I think by calling it a Wratten 12 and saying (minus blue) I wasn't thinking YELLOW, I own a yellow filter already, I don't find it strong enough in all situations, but I use it relatively often. So, that's why I was inquiring about the orange...


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  2. #22

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    Why do you use a yellow filter?
    "The problem with photography is that it only deals with appearances." Duane Michals

    "A photograph is a secret of a secret. The more it tells you the less you know." Diane Arbus

  3. #23

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    I too own a yellow filter. Unfortunately not every filter seems to use the Wratten codification. I have a Jessops yellow which has a filter factor of 1 which is the same factor as the Wratten 12 Minus Blue but I have no idea if a Wratten 12 is the equivalent of a light Yellow or Deep Yellow nor whether my Jessops Yellow which has the notation of Y2 is the same as a Light Yellow or Deep Yellow or whether either of these are the same as a Y2 or whether the Minus Blue is a special filter that has properties that neither the Light yellow or deep yellow possess.

    Maybe David Allen can help out here. I am mystified.

    pentaxuser

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I think by calling it a Wratten 12 and saying (minus blue) I wasn't thinking YELLOW, I own a yellow filter already, I don't find it strong enough in all situations, but I use it relatively often. So, that's why I was inquiring about the orange...


    Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    Which yellow do you have? The deeper it is, the more pronounced the effect on blues (and other tones). Generally in the yellows to oranges to reds, the higher the Wratten # the deeper the filter colour. The most common yellow is probably the #8 (K2). #12 is a popular one. #15 (G) is deeper. Not all companies use Wratten designations. B+W, for example, doesn't, although it is pretty easy to go back and forth. So maybe a #12 would be good for you. Or a light orange / yellow-orange.

    Adams's The Negative has a pretty good section on filters and their effects.

  5. #25
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Use yellow, orange, or red filters or use a polarizer.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  6. #26
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Which yellow do you have? The deeper it is, the more pronounced the effect on blues (and other tones). Generally in the yellows to oranges to reds, the higher the Wratten # the deeper the filter colour. The most common yellow is probably the #8 (K2). #12 is a popular one. #15 (G) is deeper. Not all companies use Wratten designations. B+W, for example, doesn't, although it is pretty easy to go back and forth. So maybe a #12 would be good for you. Or a light orange / yellow-orange.

    Adams's The Negative has a pretty good section on filters and their effects.
    I use only B+W for anything I deem important, and it annoys the heck out of me that they use a different number system, but the glass is top notch and I have less trouble with humidity on the glass than I do using a Hoya filter.

    I think for the standard colors B+W uses the Wratten numbers but the more specialized ones are totally different like my IR filter. I know my Red is a #25 with B+W ill check on the yellow....

    NOPE it's a #022 for yellow and #090 for red... Not sure what that translates to for yellow in Wratten...


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  7. #27
    David Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    I too own a yellow filter. Unfortunately not every filter seems to use the Wratten codification. I have a Jessops yellow which has a filter factor of 1 which is the same factor as the Wratten 12 Minus Blue but I have no idea if a Wratten 12 is the equivalent of a light Yellow or Deep Yellow nor whether my Jessops Yellow which has the notation of Y2 is the same as a Light Yellow or Deep Yellow or whether either of these are the same as a Y2 or whether the Minus Blue is a special filter that has properties that neither the Light yellow or deep yellow possess.

    Maybe David Allen can help out here. I am mystified.

    pentaxuser
    You have understood correctly - not all yellow filters are the same.


    The Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) is a special filter that is completely different to other yellow filters. The ones that I have owned have been the gel filters (such as this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kodak-No-1...item2a2f9cfc9d) manufactured by Kodak in various sizes and used in a Kodak filter holder (such as this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kodak-prof...item232d6b4d4e).

    There are very many yellow filters available but only the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) is made to specifically remove blue light and is one of three filters - the others being Wratten 32 (Minus Green) and Wratten 44A (Minus Red) that are specifically designed to remove one of the three primary colours.

    In addition to general photography use, the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) is also used for certain types of astral photography, arial photography, high altitude photography, by doctors assessing certain eye conditions, in scientific photography and is also popular for certain infra-red photography applications.

    In my youth, the three (Minus colour) filters were used by our science teacher to demonstrate that the three primary colours are Red, Blue and Green rather than the primary pigments of Red, Yellow and Blue. A still life was photographed on black & white film with a 35mm camera three times using each of the (Minus colour) filters. Once the film was processed, the three frames were mounted in slide mounts and placed in three projectors each with the corresponding filter over the lens. Once the three projected images were correctly aligned we all gasped with amazement when we saw a full colour image of the original still life.

    This only works properly when using the properly manufactured Minus Blue, Minus Red and Minus Green filters and demonstrates the difference between a 'normal' yellow filter and a true Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) filter.

    Hope that explains the difference between the Wratten 12 (Minus Blue) filter and all other available yellow filters.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I use only B+W for anything I deem important, and it annoys the heck out of me that they use a different number system, but the glass is top notch and I have less trouble with humidity on the glass than I do using a Hoya filter.

    I think for the standard colors B+W uses the Wratten numbers but the more specialized ones are totally different like my IR filter. I know my Red is a #25 with B+W ill check on the yellow....

    NOPE it's a #022 for yellow and #090 for red... Not sure what that translates to for yellow in Wratten...


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    I use mostly B+W also. The #022 is essentially a Wratten #8. This is a common light/medium yellow which some people refer to as a kind of "correction" filter for B&W to give a subtle darkening of blue skies and that sort of thing. Again, the effects depend on the scene. #090 is essentially a Wratten #25.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    ...What is missing in this discussion is the type of light, the colours in the scene, and particularly the saturation of those colours...
    Considering the type of film is important, also. I used TMax100 a lot, and as I usually prefer light skies, I rarely used a filter on it, where I might use a yellow filter on Tri-X or FP4 to get similar skies.

    I used a red filter on this image. The idea was to bring the values of the sky and sea closer to the values under the wharf to make printing easier (silver gelatin). I think it worked (I liked the longer exposure's affect on the water, also). I actually ended up doing some burning under the wharf to darken its underside a bit, but keeping detail (that may not show well on the screen).

    Gowland 4x5, 150mm lens, TMax100 in HC-110, Ilford Gallerie
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tolaga bay Wharf, NZ_16x20.jpg  
    Last edited by Vaughn; 08-06-2013 at 11:09 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  10. #30

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    Thanks for the info and links, David. It looks as if the Kodak hood and filter holder doesn't require an adaptor ring to fit the thread on your lens but simply adapts to all lenses by the use of the three screws similar to the way that Ilford under the lens filter holder fits an enlarger lens?

    Have I got this correct? Presumably the filter holder only holds one filter at a time?

    Do you or anyone else know who stocks a Wratten 12 Minus Blue round glass filter?

    I don't wish to sound ungrateful in advance but as I am U.K. based then there is probably little point in any U.S. based APUGers given me U.S. stockists.

    Thanks

    pentaxuser

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