Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,989   Posts: 1,524,104   Online: 1072
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
  1. #1
    arigram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Crete, Greece
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    5,474
    Images
    69

    When water is a luxury

    I recently started using FB paper and I find the water use for even twenty minutes with hypo clear wash extremely wasteful. Even if I live in an island water here is a luxury so just one sessions with FB papers used up all the water for the day!
    I went to the Ilford method of washing films and I was wondering if there is a more economic way to wash fiber prints to archival standards. I don't have a hypo testing chemical to test if all the fix is gone. And ofcourse I don't have an archival washer or plan to get one soon as I can't afford one.
    Any ideas?
    If there was one thing that would make me turn to digital that would be it.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  2. #2
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,171
    Images
    20
    During California water shortages, Ansel Adams (actually John Sexton, who was his assistant at the time) would wash prints with a system of seven trays, periodically dumping the first tray and moving it to the end of the line, and the prints passed the residual hypo test. I think he describes this in _The Print_.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  3. #3
    arigram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Crete, Greece
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    5,474
    Images
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    During California water shortages, Ansel Adams (actually John Sexton, who was his assistant at the time) would wash prints with a system of seven trays, periodically dumping the first tray and moving it to the end of the line, and the prints passed the residual hypo test. I think he describes this in _The Print_.
    SEVEN trays? I can barely fit the minimum of three 14x17" in my darkroom!
    Erhh... something a bit more viable?
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  4. #4
    Maine-iac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Island Heights, NJ, but will retire back to Maine.
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    464
    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    I recently started using FB paper and I find the water use for even twenty minutes with hypo clear wash extremely wasteful. Even if I live in an island water here is a luxury so just one sessions with FB papers used up all the water for the day!
    I went to the Ilford method of washing films and I was wondering if there is a more economic way to wash fiber prints to archival standards. I don't have a hypo testing chemical to test if all the fix is gone. And ofcourse I don't have an archival washer or plan to get one soon as I can't afford one.
    Any ideas?
    If there was one thing that would make me turn to digital that would be it.

    Here's a process I've used very successfully.

    After running your prints through the washing aid (hypo clear), fill your wash tray with water, agitate your prints, but shuffling them one after the other, picking up the bottom one in the stack and placing it on the top (face to face and back to back) for a couple of minutes. Then empty the tray and fill it again, repeating the shuffling. Empty. Fill the tray a third time and let the prints soak for about an hour or two. Then return, shuffle them, and empty. Fill again, and shuffle, leaving them soak for another hour or even several hours. (I've left them overnight with no harm.) Then empty, fill, shuffle, and drain. Squeegee and dry them as you usually do.

    This is a total of five changes of water, with prolonged soaking in between changes. I've found that with a washing aid, the soaking leaches out any remaining fixer, or reduces it to such a tiny fraction in parts per million of water, that it's negligible.

    Residual hypo tests have indicated no problems, thus leading me to believe that this method is as "archival" as continuous washing. This uses a fraction of the water that even a 20 minute continuous wash does.

    In fact, prints done with this method 25 years ago are in better shape than some I did using a running water wash for 30 minutes. Perhaps there were other factors that prevented those prints from washing completely (water hardness, too much fixing time, etc.) but I think this method will work for you.

    Larry

  5. #5
    Robert Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    2,040
    Images
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    SEVEN trays? I can barely fit the minimum of three 14x17" in my darkroom!
    Erhh... something a bit more viable?
    Ari,

    It's nothing that money can't solve.

    http://www.summitek.com/
    Robert Hall
    www.RobertHall.com
    www.RobertHall.com/mobile
    Apug Portfolio
    Facebook Profile


    Technology is not a panacea. It alone will not move your art forward. Only through developing your own aesthetic - free from the tools that create it - can you find new dimension to your work.

  6. #6
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    You can check the website www.fineartphotosupply.com and they tell how to build your own archival washer.

    It seems to trick to archival washing is not necessarily a huge amount of running water but letting the prints sit immersed in a few changes or water so the fix can leech out. You should be able to devise a system to do that with things you have available.

    If you are too limited on water, I would only suggest that you stick to RC paper.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Italia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,680
    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    SEVEN trays? I can barely fit the minimum of three 14x17" in my darkroom!
    Erhh... something a bit more viable?

    I don't think you need to wash in the dark-)) You can do it outside the darkroom. How are you doing two bath fixing with just three trays? No stop?

    Also you can go high. Build a tray shelf. Bottom tray would be the first tray. Top tray would be the cleanest water. This way dirty water never drips on cleaner water/prints.

  8. #8
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,171
    Images
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    SEVEN trays? I can barely fit the minimum of three 14x17" in my darkroom!
    Erhh... something a bit more viable?
    Well, he had a lot of space, but if you want to try this method, you can build a tray ladder and stack them vertically, or use one tray and seven vessels of water that you pour into and out of the tray.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  9. #9
    gainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,726
    Images
    2
    Sea water can be used for most of the washing. Then you don't need the washing aid. IIRC, this was discovered some time ago by necessity. One of the first commercial washing aids was simulated sea water, was it not?
    Gadget Gainer

  10. #10
    rbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Rio Rancho, NM
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,222
    Images
    2
    I'd love to see a photo of Ari carrying buckets of sea water up the hill to his home from the shore.

    While you're stuck with the absolute water conservation requirement, Ari, along with the absolute requirement for proper washing of your fiber prints (versus less washing for RC), don't forget to consider the tail end of the water conservation issue. You might, for example, consider the various possible "gray water" uses for the water used in print washing, thereby saving some fresh water "credits".
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin