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  1. #21
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdeeh View Post
    I've seen discussions about the minimum amount of stock D76 for one roll of 135 or one roll of 120 hashed over many times here and elsewhere. It's still unclear to me.
    The Kodak datasheet says

    One way of interpreting this is that the minimum amount of stock to be used for a single roll is ~250ml and so 1+1 requires a total volume of ~500ml including the diluent.

    In other places I've seen different interpretations, and I've seen other folk say 100ml stock is enough for a roll.
    I'm not ignoring you, but don't agree with that particular interpretation.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  2. #22

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    My Kindermann SS only takes 1 litre of chemisty and 4 rolls of 35mm film at once. I have developed this way numerous times with ID11, Perceptol and Microphen all at 1+1 with success and repeatability.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    [I] don't agree with that particular interpretation.
    perhaps it would help move the discussion forward if you would explain how you interpret the datasheet and your rationale for that interpretation?

  4. #24

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    I came to the dilution of 1+3 because i was experimienting. Also my water tap temp, which i was not checking at one point. I thought if it was warmer i could shave off a couple minutes depending on temp. which i wouldn't have to calculate exactly because of high dilution (laziness). When i began to control temp (68 deg.), i just kept the dilution. Also, i read good things about 1+3 dilution. When i began to check my process, i came across minimum developer necessary which i was not meeting. Reason for dilution may be for O/U mentioned below or affecting grain/contrast, i personally liked my results, and for the sake of some sort of consistency kept the dilution.

    I also noted as i keep looking through apug history that what i'm actually doing is Overexposing + Underdeveloping, which i apparently like, as my scenes for the most part tend to be high contrast. This is why my 100ml is probably not developing my negatives completely and retaining highlights. IF you look up Overexposing + Underdeveloping you'll get lots of hits here on apug. And if you look up d76 1+3 you'll also get several hits. Most O/U threads don't mention exhausting developer through high dilutions, but 1+3 threads caution against possible exhaustion if not enough developer is used. I didn't realize what i was doing, but now everything is pretty clear.



    You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer. If you process one
    135-36 roll in a 237 mL (8-ounce) tank or two 135-36 rolls in a 473 mL (16-ounce) tank, increase the development time by 10 percent (see the following tables).
    taken from

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/j78/j78.pdf

    Several people have noted that the REASON for minimum developer noted is for high key scenes, where say 100ml (as i use) tend to not be enough to give clean whites, etc. So while it might be enough for many occasions, it might not always fit the bill.


    Thanks to everyone. I don't know if i missed something else.

  5. #25

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    just realized someone already referenced the kodak datasheet... as i went to breakfast, and came back to finish my reply... sorry pdeeh.

  6. #26
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdeeh View Post
    perhaps it would help move the discussion forward if you would explain how you interpret the datasheet and your rationale for that interpretation?
    Practical experience and not believing everything I read.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  7. #27
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Practical experience and not believing everything I read.
    As I posted earlier clive, well I agree that Kodak's recommendation for a minimum of 250 ml of "stock" D76 most likely includes a generous safety margin, I would respectively submit that using just 100 ml of stock in a 400 ml tank would most likely move the process way outside that safety margin.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I beg to differ. If you look on the bottom of a Paterson tank it states 295ml for one 35mm film. 500ml is for 120 and Matt mentions using a litre?
    For me, it is a matter of consistent, repeatable results. Yes, I understand that 500 ml of fluid requires a 120 tank, but using D-76 diluted, requires 500 ml of the diluted solution, otherwise I have sometimes had underdeveloped negatives. I quit playing that game a long time ago. I got tired of thin negatives, as the OP has described.
    Dave

    "She's always out making pictures, She's always out making scenes.
    She's always out the window, When it comes to making Dreams.

    It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up."

    From It's All Mixed Up by The Cars

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    As I posted earlier clive, well I agree that Kodak's recommendation for a minimum of 250 ml of "stock" D76 most likely includes a generous safety margin, I would respectively submit that using just 100 ml of stock in a 400 ml tank would most likely move the process way outside that safety margin.
    As Miha states 1 Litre of chemistry and 4 rolls of 35mm equals 500ml of developer to 500ml of water for 4 rolls of film. This is 125ml of developer per roll. Can I take it this is inside your safety margin.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  10. #30
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    As Miha states 1 Litre of chemistry and 4 rolls of 35mm equals 500ml of developer to 500ml of water for 4 rolls of film. This is 125ml of developer per roll. Can I take it this is inside your safety margin.
    This probably depends on the nature of what you are photographing. If the shots include a lot of bright, high key subjects, there would be a much greater chance of running into problems with developer exhaustion, than if the shots included large areas of dark shadows.

    It may be that your preferences in photography factor in as well - wandering through your APUG gallery uploads I note very few images that I would describe as high key or predominantly based on bright highlights.

    And of course if, like I do, you shoot shorter 35mm rolls (24 exposures is my favourite choice when bulk loading) then that tends to get you back closer to the manufacturer's recommendation.

    I am inherently conservative about things like capacity, so I am more likely than some to add extra safety margin rather than count on using as much of the margin as possible.

    This is probably part of the reason I use HC-110 in a replenishment regime, and have a selection of sizes of tanks to choose from.

    I don't doubt that your experience leads you to an appropriate conclusion for you. I'm just suggesting that it is a good idea to recommend caution to others.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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