Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,745   Posts: 1,515,644   Online: 792
      
Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Blue Mountains, AU
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    46

    B/W reversal bleach possible alternative?

    So while researching different caffenol recipies a while back I came across a post on a forum (Not APUG) that was talking about the impossibility of using a laundry Oxi Cleaner (Like Nappisan - though I dont know if that brand name means anything to anyone outside Aus/NZ) in caffenol because one of its ingredienrs would bleach the silver image from the film. Now I have no idea about the truth of that statement about the Oxi Cleaner and I had totally forgotten about that post until I was walking down the laundry isle of the supermarket. So if that statement about the Oxi Cleaner is true (which I am not entirely sold on) then could a solution of Oxi Cleaner be used as a bleach for reversal processing?
    Shooting film doesn't make me a hipster, it makes me someone who takes photos...

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,769
    NO, the only thing that this product and a reversal bleach have in common is the word bleach.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Blue Mountains, AU
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    46
    Well technically they dont even have that in common. Any idea what could make someone say that about oxi cleaner bleaching (or perhaps stripping?) the image from film or were they just making an uninformed guess? The active ingredients are listed as Sodium Percarbonate, Hydrogen peroxide, Sodium Sulphate and Benzenesulfonic Acid.
    Shooting film doesn't make me a hipster, it makes me someone who takes photos...

  4. #4
    Rudeofus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,532
    Images
    10
    There are many patents for Silver bleaches based on Hydrogen Peroxide, and from looking at the redox potentials it is quite obvious that Hydrogen Peroxide will oxidize Silver (usually some catalyst is needed to unleash the oxidizing power of Hydrogen Peroxide).

    Since this bleach was never intended to be used with films, there is a good chance that it will eat the gelatin and thereby destroy the film. If you feel experimental, take a short clip of some test film, expose it to room light, develop it to completion in some left over developer until it is completely black, then see what this bleach does to that test clip and the Silver on it. If the black Silver turns into white/grey milky stuff and the emulsion stays on the film base, you have successfully bleached your film.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Blue Mountains, AU
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeofus View Post
    There are many patents for Silver bleaches based on Hydrogen Peroxide, and from looking at the redox potentials it is quite obvious that Hydrogen Peroxide will oxidize Silver (usually some catalyst is needed to unleash the oxidizing power of Hydrogen Peroxide).

    Since this bleach was never intended to be used with films, there is a good chance that it will eat the gelatin and thereby destroy the film. If you feel experimental, take a short clip of some test film, expose it to room light, develop it to completion in some left over developer until it is completely black, then see what this bleach does to that test clip and the Silver on it. If the black Silver turns into white/grey milky stuff and the emulsion stays on the film base, you have successfully bleached your film.
    On Monday, when I next have some ID-11 I will perform a couple of clip tests and see how things turn out. I will post my results here once I perform the tests.

    Edit: There is a clip test in some Caffenol now

    Thanks for your input so far!
    Last edited by septim; 10-25-2013 at 01:59 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added details to post.
    Shooting film doesn't make me a hipster, it makes me someone who takes photos...

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Blue Mountains, AU
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    46
    Update: So it seems I screwed up with mixing the Caffenol and am so going back to the original plan of using ID-11 on Monday. This will allow me to focus on finishing shooting some slides over the weekend.
    Shooting film doesn't make me a hipster, it makes me someone who takes photos...



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin