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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by miha View Post
    Since when is Paterson home system and Jobo is not? There is no need for any kind of automation with JOBO, just treat is as a standard tank, and 0,5 litre of rodinal at 1+50 is not that big of a difference is it?
    It's a big deal because all of my dev/stop/fix/hypo-clear bottles are 1L and the next size up is 2L and I would have to use that much more chemistry and new/giant bottles I don't have room for.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    The Paterson tanks are smaller inside than the JOBO ones. If you tried to use a JOBO type holder in a Paterson tank, the chemistry would flow in a different manner, thus potentially leading to uneven development.

    So the process of designing inserts for a competitor's tank is not a simple or inexpensive one.

    If you are concerned about the larger volumes of chemistry and costs involved in using a JOBO when agitation is by inversion, then move to using a replenishment regime for your developer. If you use X-Tol in a replenishment regime, your developer costs are probably about 5 cents a 4x5 sheet, and you can happily develop single sheets without being concerned about waste.
    JOBO makes a hand processing tank that takes the same exact reels, center tube, etc that Paterson does, so it would support their own systems too. Or heck Paterson could make one!

    I don't want nor like x-tol both as a powder dev, and as it's mixed keeping properties are horrid and unstable based on lots of stuff I've read, I don't want to work with a replenishment system as my developing is sporadic and unpredictable and I don't want to deal with keeping track of when I last filled / used it and at what point I have to replenish it etc.

    I'm not worried about waste, I don't want to have to use larger storage bottles for all my chemistry. Plus I've dialed in all of the exhaustion rates for my dev's and more volume with the same amount if film = a change in exhaustion.

  2. #72

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    If I was using the JOBO I'd get a 1500 ml graduate to mix my developer and that's it. No need for stop and hypo clear, so even less bottles that take up the storage space. Fixing would be done with 0,5l of solution and rolling the tank on a table.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by miha View Post
    If I was using the JOBO I'd get a 1500 ml graduate to mix my developer and that's it. No need for stop and hypo clear, so even less bottles that take up the storage space. Fixing would be done with 0,5l of solution and rolling the tank on a table.
    Fine, and that is your method, I have mine, it works and I'm not changing my whole system, lol, I'm greatful for the input but get frustrated after a while when people on here try to change all your methodology to THEIR method when you only want to solve one issue they want you to change everything instead of creating a solution to the question at hand you create larger issues by changing everything.

  4. #74

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    John,
    Would you consider a simple homemade slosher? See my earlier post (#6)
    Bob Walberg

    The fix is in!

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Fine, and that is your method, I have mine, it works and I'm not changing my whole system, lol, I'm greatful for the input but get frustrated after a while when people on here try to change all your methodology to THEIR method when you only want to solve one issue they want you to change everything instead of creating a solution to the question at hand you create larger issues by changing everything.
    I newer thought this is about you, and certainly didn't want you to get frustrated, but you've made a couple of succesive assumptions which were wrong and could be misleading to OP so I've addressed them. And I'm happy you are content with your method of film developing.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by walbergb View Post
    John,
    Would you consider a simple homemade slosher? See my earlier post (#6)
    This looks good indeed.

  7. #77
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    Stone:

    X-Tol easily lasts 6 months once mixed, and it is easy to mix. Past that, it is a bit iffy, but it is cheap, so if you need to toss it after 6 months, you are probably wasting between 3 and 7 dollars.

    When you mix it up first time, you divide the 5 litres into a bottle used for working solution and bottle(s) for replenishment. I'm currently using a 1.25 litre bottle for my working solution.

    You only need to replenish it a minimum of once a week, and you do that by just dumping 70 ml from your working solution and adding 70 ml from your replenishing solution - which comes from the same initial 5 litre batch. You only need to do this during any week when you don't develop film.

    If you actually develop film during that week, you replenish after each development @ 70 ml per 120 roll or equivalent (120 = 135-36 = four 4x5 sheets). You dump the appropriate amount of replenishing solution into your bottle while the film is developing, and than pour the developer back into the bottle, with the excess being discarded.

    Your first batch will give you about fifty 120 rolls (or fifty 135-36 rolls, or 200 4x5 sheets). With subsequent batches, you continue to use the same bottle of working solution, while the newly mixed batch can be conveniently split between five one litre bottles.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #78
    LJH
    LJH is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Yea, I got that, 1L is my max, alas... Maybe I'll design my own better one and market it

    It seems to me if the tolerances on the mod 54 or better, this wouldn't be an issue, the film would stay put and not shimmy back-and-forth, but there's at least a millimeter or two of space on the top and bottom for the film to shift up-and-down, I don't understand why there's so much space. Also if instead of having the film be with teeth, if they were actually tracks, the film would stay more still, and be less prone to scratching in the first place.

    I come from a long line of engineers, I'm the first in 4 generations to not be one by trade, but it still is ingrained in me, and it just drives me nuts that something better couldn't have been designed its so simple I don't understand, if I only had the money, I would design it myself and patent it.
    I think I'd back the Jobo Engineers' skills, experience and knowledge over a Layman's every day of the year.

    The tolerances you refer to are to allow fluid movement over the whole film so as to prevent edge markings and/or surge marks.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by LJH View Post
    I think I'd back the Jobo Engineers' skills, experience and knowledge over a Layman's every day of the year.

    The tolerances you refer to are to allow fluid movement over the whole film so as to prevent edge markings and/or surge marks.
    It's not that they can't do it, it's just that it's not profitable

  10. #80

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    Better than FR tank for 4x5 that isn't discontinued?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    Stone:

    X-Tol easily lasts 6 months once mixed, and it is easy to mix. Past that, it is a bit iffy, but it is cheap, so if you need to toss it after 6 months, you are probably wasting between 3 and 7 dollars.

    When you mix it up first time, you divide the 5 litres into a bottle used for working solution and bottle(s) for replenishment. I'm currently using a 1.25 litre bottle for my working solution.

    You only need to replenish it a minimum of once a week, and you do that by just dumping 70 ml from your working solution and adding 70 ml from your replenishing solution - which comes from the same initial 5 litre batch. You only need to do this during any week when you don't develop film.

    If you actually develop film during that week, you replenish after each development @ 70 ml per 120 roll or equivalent (120 = 135-36 = four 4x5 sheets). You dump the appropriate amount of replenishing solution into your bottle while the film is developing, and than pour the developer back into the bottle, with the excess being discarded.

    Your first batch will give you about fifty 120 rolls (or fifty 135-36 rolls, or 200 4x5 sheets). With subsequent batches, you continue to use the same bottle of working solution, while the newly mixed batch can be conveniently split between five one litre bottles.
    Thanks Matt, I don't really have the room for all those bottles, I'm already at my max, plus I hardly even know what day it is let alone what week it is haha, too complicated for my chaotic life, and I'm happy with Rodinal, the dev isn't the issue, it's the storage bottles and wanting to keep it at 1L bottles. Essentially I've honed my set up so that I don't actually need to use a graduate, I have a tiny little measuring cup and the measures in 10 ml increments, I put 20ml developer into the little measure, pour it directly into the bottle, the 1 L bottle, I then pour in the filtered water and I'm done no need for a large graduate or mixing stuff etc. etc. no need to store anything makes life really simple for me. I'm smart, but I'm also dyslexic, so keeping things in increments of 10 makes my life easier, if I had a 1.5 L bottle of chemistry it just complicates things, of the next as I use add up to a 1 L bottle, having to figure out the tiny little changes makes me nuts and I had up messing up the dilutions.

    However I MAY be getting a special gift soon that would make me shut up and buy a JOBO tank anyway...

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