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  1. #141

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    MGIV was good predictable stuff in a Ford/Chevy sense. It could reliably get you from point A to point B, but not luxuriously. Fairly immune to toners. By contrast, and with a bit of a learning curve, Kentmere Fineprint could be turned into a fairly flashy hot rod. And then there's MGWT ... a Lamborghini or Ferrari, just so you don't demand something on the genuinely cool side. So I'm just sitting here salivating, drooling... waiting
    for the Cooltone to arrive. And I'll certainly try the Classic after that. My amidol and gold chloride are just waiting to pounce.

  2. #142
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Everyone talks about how resistant MGIV is to toning but I found I had to stop at 4 minutes in KRST 1+19 as it becomes too purple at 5 minutes (granted this was in summer when my ambient solutions are around 75F) as compared to MCC 110 which cools slightly to neutral after 5 minutes but is much more resistant to selenium and only goes purple with prolonged toning. Others say MCC 110 doesn't respond at all though and I definitely see a response, clear when wet but more subtle after drying of course. I just hope the Classic doesn't tone TOO easily for me as I seem pretty sensitive to changes in print color.

    My neutral papers are developed, so far anyway, in LPD so that could be a source of the differences if most folks are using Dektol or similar.


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  3. #143

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    Roger, I can't really agree or disagree with what you're saying about MGIV. I tend to be very sensitive to small differences and I see changes in MGIV as it tones, but I never saw it go as purple as other papers I've used like Oriental or even Polymax FB. But there are variables so who knows. It does seem the developer can make a difference so maybe LPD/MGIV is a combo that goes purple. On the other hand the perceived change could depend on what initial colour the paper takes on. So for example maybe the colour of MGIV straight out of LPD is such that as it tones it looks more purple relative to where it started. I don't know. In any case I certainly have more work to do.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I'll be getting into cool tone FB as soon as I burn through my stash of regular FB, which will take a while... Available in matt surface too! Yes! I am going to relish this.
    I think this is great and good news from Ilford.However, I get all I want from MGIVand have no need to increase darkroom complexity. thanks Ilford butdon't eliminate existing products because of it!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  5. #145
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    New black and white fibre-based papers from Ilford

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Roger, I can't really agree or disagree with what you're saying about MGIV. I tend to be very sensitive to small differences and I see changes in MGIV as it tones, but I never saw it go as purple as other papers I've used like Oriental or even Polymax FB. But there are variables so who knows. It does seem the developer can make a difference so maybe LPD/MGIV is a combo that goes purple. On the other hand the perceived change could depend on what initial colour the paper takes on. So for example maybe the colour of MGIV straight out of LPD is such that as it tones it looks more purple relative to where it started. I don't know. In any case I certainly have more work to do.
    Or maybe I'm just used to MCC 110 and only in comparison does MGIV go purple! MCC 110 has been my standard neutral paper for a while and it definitely resists selenium though it does respond some.

    In any case, thanks for the advance work on Classic and I'm looking forward to trying both the new papers.



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    Last edited by Roger Cole; 12-27-2013 at 12:04 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #146

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    Ralph, I agree. I switched to MGIV after Polymax FA went away and it's everything I need. But I'm sure I will love MG Classic once I get to know it better. MGIV is being discontinued.
    Last edited by Michael R 1974; 12-26-2013 at 10:00 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #147
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Ralph, I agree. I switched to MGIV after Polymax FA went away and it's everything I need. But I'm sure I will love MG Classic once I get to know it better. MGIV is being discontinued.
    diccontinuing MGIVwill be a serious mistake Ilford You gonna loose me. Don't do it!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    diccontinuing MGIVwill be a serious mistake Ilford You gonna loose me. Don't do it!
    Ralph,
    This might just be better? I know how you feel and get a little apprehensive about a move like this myself. Remember the classic coke escapade? Coke took it off the market because they had a better "New Coke". Well, the rest is history and we got our "Classic Coke" back. New is not always better! We'll see I guess. Meanwhile, you better stock up Ralph. JohnW

  9. #149

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    Ralph - they're got two new papers coming out, so what's to lose? Things change. I recently lost two favorite papers (Polygrade V and Fineprint VCFB), but that just created a conspicuous vacuum which Ilford in conveniently filling. I find it hard to believe that one or the other of these new papers won't do everything that MGIV did, and probably do it even better. I had to revert to MGIV for a recent project, and had to be very picky about which negs would ideally match it. I haven't used that paper in many years, but it took me only minutes to know what to do. And I figure the learning curve with these new papers will go just as smoothly. New papers equal new opportunities. Negs which gave me hell way back when became a piece of cake when MGWT came out, and now I anticipate similar results from a cool tone version. But I doubt the new products will simply be "Classic" in the sense of a marketing ruse, like Coca Cola. I'm looking forward to exactly the improvement they describe. Nothing is permanent in this game except change anyway.

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Ralph - they're got two new papers coming out, so what's to lose? Things change. I recently lost two favorite papers (Polygrade V and Fineprint VCFB), but that just created a conspicuous vacuum which Ilford in conveniently filling. I find it hard to believe that one or the other of these new papers won't do everything that MGIV did, and probably do it even better. I had to revert to MGIV for a recent project, and had to be very picky about which negs would ideally match it. I haven't used that paper in many years, but it took me only minutes to know what to do. And I figure the learning curve with these new papers will go just as smoothly. New papers equal new opportunities. Negs which gave me hell way back when became a piece of cake when MGWT came out, and now I anticipate similar results from a cool tone version. But I doubt the new products will simply be "Classic" in the sense of a marketing ruse, like Coca Cola. I'm looking forward to exactly the improvement they describe. Nothing is permanent in this game except change anyway.
    Drew,
    Coca~Cola was a gimmick/promotion right from the start, but it sure pissed a ton of people off. I think Ilford has thought this out and did enough R&D that we can rest assured the final product will at least be as good, if not better than the old paper. I'll watch and see what others think. JohnW



 

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