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  1. #181

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    Looking at the data sheets the washing details (with washaid) are the same across the 'old' MGIV, Classic, Cooltone and ART300 papers. Possibly someone on a forum got surprised by the "optimal permanence" procedure which is suggested by Ilford??

    The newer papers are a bit shorter on plain-water washing than the MGIV (15m less), but not surprisingly different.
    Last edited by MartinP; 01-02-2014 at 05:07 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Pushed the wrong button . . .

  2. #182
    VaryaV's Avatar
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    Thanks for explaining that Martin. I thought it might be because the Cooltone, I noticed, is so much glossier than other papers I have worked with outside of rc. I thought the finish might almost be sort of a 'cross' between rc and fb, (just the finish) but I don't know that much about the finishing process.
    Sourdough, salami and blue cheese... and 2 dogs drooling with such sad, sad eyes. ... they're working me... they know I'll cave!

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  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    I'd ask them directly about that, Bob. I often use more than one type of paper in a printing session, with different kinds of toners. So, even
    though I use "archival" TF4 fixer for all of them, still give my standard one-hour wash, regardless. I might have to rethink that, now that water
    rationing is a possibility - we're having by far our driest year on record here in California.
    Drew, that reminds me, FWIW, of a message noted in an Ilford pub on VC papers I requested from them. I've posted this before:
    It states that Multigrade FB papers, except WT, have anchored optical brighteners that won't wash out and paper white stays white. But the WT brighteners are not anchored and will wash out with "extended" washing for an even warmer base tint.

  4. #184

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    Well, I'm just making a guess at how the short-washing meme started !! For example, the ART300 has a different base to it (it feels different and it floats more) , from Hannemuhle, and has some limits on maximum wet-time which aren't repeated in the leaflets for the newest papers, so they certainly aren't exactly the same in that respect.

    I've counted my heap of Kentmere and am wondering whether to use it all up, or not, before ordering some Cooltone . . . Probably it is sensible to print a couple of negs on both papers, so I get a clear idea of the differences and advantages, so I'll be commenting first-hand in a couple of weeks

  5. #185
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    FWIW I don't like the finish on the Cooltone at all. I DO like the cold tone of the paper and it looked great in Edwal, but I'm used to using Galerie (and Foma MG) and I just don't like the texture or the finish at all. I haven't tried Galerie in Edwal yet, to get similar ultra blacks, but if I can come close I won't need to use it.

    Let us know how you like it.
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  6. #186

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    Thanks. But I haven't seen any evidence of brighteners washing out within a reasonable work session of several hours. Obviously, a batch of prints gets washed together, and just sit in a tray prior. Overnite would be another issue, though the emulsion itself risks frilling at that point.
    Generally when I work with Warmtone the glycin itself or maybe a sulfide toner will stain the base a bit anyway. ... At least that seems to best explain the slight difference between the base color of specific prints on MGWT, even from the same printing session. The whole question of added brighteners seems a bit questionable in an "archival" context. I'd like to see that subject addressed by someone, and not just in relation to washing. One more whatever.

  7. #187

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    Martin - Cooltone and Fineprint are quite different in a number of respects; and according to my initial results, I anticipate using Cooltone for
    what it seems to do best, and not as a substitute for Fineprint. My bigger question is whether or not the new "neutral tone" Classic paper will
    develop and tone more analogously to Fineprint. I particularly liked the way I could obtain a subtle but very rich split tones on Fineprint using a combination of both gold and selenium toners, after amidol development. It was nothing artsy/craftsy or obvious, like most people might visualize split toning, but allowed a very subtle kind of "depth" control that was at once stunning yet not readily identifiable. When I want something more conspicuous, I go straight to Warmtone, which splits or tri-s conspicuously. I still have a fair amt of 20x24 Fineprint on hand,
    but due to budget reasons, couldn't really load up on the smaller sizes on its last run. I was an odd duck with that nutmeg-tinged silver idodide in conventional developer, and took a bit of experimenting to unlock its greater potential. That always seems to be the case. And I
    enjoying learning new tricks with new papers anyway. The gloss level of the Cooltone doesn't bother me at all. ... in fact, I like it.

  8. #188

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    This will be interesting then, when the order arrives

    I have used the Kentmere as a non-warm paper, if that makes sense. Sometimes with selenium, but really I haven't ever used toners adventurously. However, I was thinking of saving what Fineprint I have left for some exploration of lith printing (using Moersch EasyLith probably), but then I'd have to move to Foma papers if I liked the results I suppose.

    At the moment,the Cooltone sounds more intriguing than the Classic, so I'll be looking at that first. It will be nice to see how the higher gloss and, perhaps, higher micro-contrast look together. Thank you for the good qualitative description of what can/could be done with the Fineprint.

  9. #189

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    Roger, you might want to look at the comparative contrast test I posted for Classic vs MGIV. I haven't yet completed the test with MCC, but Classic is a very different paper than MGIV, especially if you are using a colour/VC head.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Roger, you might want to look at the comparative contrast test I posted for Classic vs MGIV. I haven't yet completed the test with MCC, but Classic is a very different paper than MGIV, especially if you are using a colour/VC head.
    I saw them. Excellent work and thanks for doing it. I am using a condenser head with filters in the drawer, but with an LED lamphouse. I can change back to the incandescent with PH211 or PH212 at whim though so I could try it both ways.



 

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