Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,566   Posts: 1,545,379   Online: 1028
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
  1. #1
    VaryaV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,256
    Images
    26

    Questions Regarding Expired Film and Exposures

    I just found a bag of film stored in a drawer in my d/r I had forgotten about, prior to me getting my refrigerator out there. I have only shot an expired roll once (that hadn't been properly stored) by accident and I used the fogging to my advantage and it turned out pretty cool. I know a lot of you have experience using old film (that may not have been properly stored.)
    My questions are:

    1. What would I have to rate these at for them to be usable?
    2. Would Rodi stand development help compensate for loss, 1 or 2 hour?

    The films are:
    Macophot UP 25 - exp 2008
    PanF - exp 2006
    FomaPan 100 - the boxes do not have an exp date
    FP4+- exp unknown
    D100 - exp 2006
    D3200 - exp 2002
    TMX 620 - exp 2006

    I suspect the rating for the 25 would drop down to like 6 or something? Probably not worth the effort, eh? but I have regenerated my love for D100 so that I would hope could be salvaged somehow and the PanF too. There's like 30 rolls of film all-in-all that I would like to use if possible. Thanks.
    Last edited by VaryaV; 12-23-2013 at 07:45 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Sourdough, salami and blue cheese... and 2 dogs drooling with such sad, sad eyes. ... they're working me... they know I'll cave!

    APUG Portfolio

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    929
    Given its original speed and the age of the film now, from personal experience I don't think that the D3200 will be very successful.

    The other films might, or might not, be usable perhaps with a little extra fog - it depends on how warm they have been, on any vapours in the area (paints, wood treatments etc.) or e.m. radiation that may have affected them, on their packaging etc. etc. Generally, the higher speed films are more sensitive to any risks and will build fog more quickly than slower films.

    There is no simple and infallible answer unfortunately.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    local
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,342
    Blog Entries
    5
    Images
    50
    hey varya

    i never have used rodinal but have shot expired versions of most of those films
    i usually over expose 1-2 stops
    and develop them in something like ansco 130
    for normal development (1:7 72degreesF 8mins or so)
    but these days i do the same development split between
    ansco 130(same dilution ) 4.5 mins and a strong brew of caffenol that i
    put pre used pre dilute ansco 130 into.
    the ansco is agitated for the first ful min, then 10/60 sec
    and continuously in the caffenol 4 mins ...

    if you try this ... a few things ...
    my ansco stock is about 13 months old
    and i use home roasted sumatra robusta coffee for my coffee stock
    and free pour the other ingredients ( 1 big scoop of washing soda and a smaller scoop of vit c )
    i also add about 1-2 oz of stock ansco 130 into the coffee.
    oh, my caffenol is seasoned with abut 1/3 used caffenol, and has had about 20 rolls and sheers through it

    it works with cheap old instant coffee too ...

    good luck!

    john


    ps. from what i remember, these were taken with 10+ year old tmz (3200)
    bedside drawer stored film processes in the coffee stuff 30-35 mins stand developed

    http://www.apug.org/forums/blogs/jna...negatives.html
    Last edited by jnanian; 12-23-2013 at 08:50 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    silver magnets, trickle tanks sold
    artwork often times sold for charity
    PM me for details

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,052
    The D3200 may have real problems. The others are not really that far out of date, and are the kind of material that ages well. If they have not been subjected to temperature or humidity extremes, they are probably OK. You might give them half a stop more exposure. They may not really need it, but it is unlikely to do any harm, and it will help if the films have lost any speed. Both temperature and humidity can be real killers, however. If they have been subjected to long periods over 32C and (or) extended periods in high humidity, they have have deteriorated seriously.

  5. #5
    VaryaV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,256
    Images
    26
    Thanks for the great tips, everyone. I had heard that fast films can cause problems when not properly stored. I keep my d/r around 72-74 in the summer but I am in Florida. The stuff was stored in a corner drawer that's hard to get too. I assume it got much warmer in there. The humidity is crazy. I had been running an old de-humidifier out there after summer downpours and printing sessions but the fan has bit the dust, I haven't found a new one that even comes close to that old thing. So yes the heat/humidity will be suspect. I have since bought a little refrigerator to store my film and papers in. But based on every one's feed back it looks like some of the stuff is very doable. I'll just forgo the 25. The PanF I have to try. Just cuz I love the stuff so much.

    John, much appreciated as always. As soon as I get my MSA stuff done I am going to give the caffenol a shot. I love what you are doing and using this old film will be well worth it. I love experimenting with stuff.
    Sourdough, salami and blue cheese... and 2 dogs drooling with such sad, sad eyes. ... they're working me... they know I'll cave!

    APUG Portfolio

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    2,843
    dev the Tmax 3200 as a 400 ISO film there is a Kodak data sheet for time and temp.

    Id treat the others normally ie no uprating cut dev time by 15%.

    Fog increases with the time in developer anyway but storing (cooking) the film in your local climate won't have helped.

    You should be able to print/scan through fog but Id use the film for repeatable shots until you are confident.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    6,969
    [QUOTE=Xmas;1586328]
    Id treat the others normally ie no uprating cut dev time by 15%.

    Fog increases with the time in developer anyway but storing (cooking) the film in your local climate won't have helped.

    I had always thought that the conventional wisdom was to increase dev time or if you can be sure the film hasn't lost speed to at least dev as per the time for in-date film.

    You are suggesting a cut of 15% - you may be right, I have no idea - but can you say why a cut will help with out of date film?

    Thanks

    pentaxuser

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    2,843
    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    Id treat the others normally ie no uprating cut dev time by 15%.

    Fog increases with the time in developer anyway but storing (cooking) the film in your local climate won't have helped.
    I had always thought that the conventional wisdom was to increase dev time or if you can be sure the film hasn't lost speed to at least dev as per the time for in-date film.

    You are suggesting a cut of 15% - you may be right, I have no idea - but can you say why a cut will help with out of date film?

    Thanks

    pentaxuser
    reducing time in dev reduces the fog in any film
    increasing time in dev increases the fog in any film
    look at detailed film datasheets
    cooked film will have a higher natural fog level than normal film, the OP lives in Florida
    out of date film won't have a higher level necessarily most of my film is pre 2005 not been fridged but no -detectable fog
    increasing dev time of cooked film is risky
    increasing the exposure raises the shadows a bit more above the fog or any detectable fog the ISO standard uses this metric
    you could add restrainer but that is more complicated unless you know the film, the developer, and the restrainer
    you could try a post Borax bath but again that needs knowledge eg there is the possibility of non uniform fog
    Id try development for minimum time and sort out contrast problems printing later
    people who uprate film have more difficult printing problems even when not cooked
    the rule is dont underexposure and overdevelop?
    Last edited by Xmas; 12-23-2013 at 01:10 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: quote brackets

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    local
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,342
    Blog Entries
    5
    Images
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by VaryaV View Post
    Thanks for the great tips, everyone. I had heard that fast films can cause problems when not properly stored. I keep my d/r around 72-74 in the summer but I am in Florida. The stuff was stored in a corner drawer that's hard to get too. I assume it got much warmer in there. The humidity is crazy. I had been running an old de-humidifier out there after summer downpours and printing sessions but the fan has bit the dust, I haven't found a new one that even comes close to that old thing. So yes the heat/humidity will be suspect. I have since bought a little refrigerator to store my film and papers in. But based on every one's feed back it looks like some of the stuff is very doable. I'll just forgo the 25. The PanF I have to try. Just cuz I love the stuff so much.

    John, much appreciated as always. As soon as I get my MSA stuff done I am going to give the caffenol a shot. I love what you are doing and using this old film will be well worth it. I love experimenting with stuff.
    thanks varya!


    they used to say 1fstop/decade
    print dev like dektoll and ansco 130 will reduce fog ..its ont of the reasons
    rockland colliod has it as part of their tintype kit ...so if you get fog in other stuff try a little dektol
    1:7 for about 7 mins ...

    psst YMMV
    john
    silver magnets, trickle tanks sold
    artwork often times sold for charity
    PM me for details

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    929
    Oh, and not forgetting that the age-related fog is independent of exposure (more or less) so you can see what happens to any particular roll, or group of rolls, with a short unexposed clip-test of whichever emulsion you want to use next.

    If it comes out of standard development with a fog noticeably added to the usual film-base, then under-rate the film (ie. give more exposure) and reduce development slightly (to reduce the fog, relative to the silver image). This will likely reduce contrast somewhat, so perhaps bear that in mind with the subject matter.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin