Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,994   Posts: 1,524,270   Online: 993
      
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 14 of 14
  1. #11
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ignacio, CO, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,598
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by jernejk View Post
    One more question: when properly developed and printed, should the gray card on paper be 18% grey, the same as the real grey card? My guess is not, as we are only reproducing the relationships of tones in the scene on a medium that has a shorter tonal scale.

    my printed grey card is about a stop brighter than the real thing:
    Attachment 79291
    A reference point like the grey card provides a connection between scene and print, it is just a place to start, a way to waste less paper when printing. I do use reference points (various and sundry reference points, see below) with my enlarger meter to set exposure for the first print (when I use a grey card) and depending on the target to set paper grade (where there are both a black and a white point).

    What a single point does well is to "correct" enlarger exposure for changes in camera exposure (purposeful or inadvertent). This is possible because most negative films have some latitude. This may be why you see little difference between prints from differing EI's with PanF and Delta 100.

    (Side note. As reference points I use; my palm, my camera bag, my truck provides both black and white points, asphalt, northern sky, grass, in studio setups I use a rag doll ... Any "known" reference point can work.)
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    144
    Images
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Daniel View Post
    As I remember the Zone System, yes, the idea is that 18% gray card is 18% gray print.
    That's an really interesting question. I don't remember reading about this relation anywhere.. just.. expose for the highlights, contrast for shadows, when printing.

    In my example, to bring grey card down, I'd have to use more contrast (more exposure would darken the highlights), but then I'd have really bad separation in everything under zone V. I'd lose the delicate light and shadows, and the print would look way to harsh.

    I have another negative with same exposure but 20% shorter development time. I still need to print it to see if there's any difference.

  3. #13
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ignacio, CO, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,598
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by jernejk View Post
    That's an really interesting question. I don't remember reading about this relation anywhere.. just.. expose for the highlights, contrast for shadows, when printing.

    In my example, to bring grey card down, I'd have to use more contrast (more exposure would darken the highlights), but then I'd have really bad separation in everything under zone V. I'd lose the delicate light and shadows, and the print would look way to harsh.

    I have another negative with same exposure but 20% shorter development time. I still need to print it to see if there's any difference.
    Essentially you are talking about pure straight printing.

    Our subject matter can, but doesn't always, fall exactly where we might prefer it on the print. Heck at the contrast rate we want (where we get the right "snap" in the print) all the subject matter we want might not even be visible.

    The grey card is a "stand in" for mid tone subject matter. When I look at a photo, one of the things that stands out for me is whether or not things look "as I would expect". If mid tone stuff (like a grey card or face or building or coyote) falls too light or too dark, in relation to what I expect from a real situation, it looks weird, wrong.

    Moving the mid tones around a bit with a bit of burn or dodge can make a huge difference. Getting say the shadow point and the grey card right and then burning in the highlights may work better, or get the highlights and mid tones and burn or dodge the shadows.

    Reference points give us a way to figure this out with enlarger meters or test strips.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sweden
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    19
    I found myself in kind of the same situation. I read these articles written by Tom Halfhill and I am going to do what they suggest.

    http://www.halfhill.com/speed1.html
    http://www.halfhill.com/speed2.html
    http://www.halfhill.com/proof.html - guilty of that one...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin