Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,695   Posts: 1,549,040   Online: 1006
      
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 40
  1. #11
    PeterB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Your reference MSDS refers to injestion, not inhalation.
    PE, you're right that the 2nd MSDS did only refer to ingestion, however I just found another MSDS listing inhaling the sulfurous acid fumes/gas which reads:

    " Inhalation: Mists and vapors cause irritation of respiratory tract. "

    which is what I had. The diarrhoea symptom documented in the XTOL MSDS I referenced was most likely attributed (in my conclusion) to inhaling the sodium sulphite powder. If it was an allergic reaction yes I agree I should have had anaphylaxis type symptoms which I didn't and would instead suggest I just could have been sensitive to the sulphite rather than allergic to it. Or (less likely) that it was something I ate. Only a repeat experiment will tell and I'm not volunteering for that any time soon !

  2. #12
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ignacio, CO, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,757
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB View Post
    . I've never had that problem before and have always mixed my XTOL outside. Additionally I have way too much testing and experienced devoted to XTOL and it ticks all the other boxes.
    I'm actually of the mind there's some other cause besides Xtol, BUT, so what? If you really think Xtol is the cause, inside, outside, wherever; give it up and move on.

    Seriously, if for some weird reason you are hypersensitive to the chemicals in Xtol, are you willing to die or be disabled just to be able to use Xtol?

    I've used Ibuprofen sparingly for years, fell and hurt my wrist and shoulder a few weeks back and got put on an Rx size dose, got to feeling weird so backed off on the dose. Everybody at work was telling me to get back on the pills because they never had a problem. Went and got a second opinion, and he put me back on the Ibuprofen, dang near had to call for an ambulance 18 hours later, as it turns out that I'm an odd duck and my body doesn't get along with Ibuprofen so I'm done with Ibuprofen forever.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #13
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,067
    Images
    65
    Peter, if you were wearing the respirator and if you were practicing common lab cleanliness, then it is unlikely that you would have inhaled any dust. That mask does not filter out gases.

    But, if you got some powder on a finger and then stuck it in your mouth, or did something like bite a fingernail, then you would have likely ingested a few mg of that "dangerous" chemical. But, if you eat a salad at a restaurant buffet, it is likely that the same Sulfite is on your salad greens to keep them fresh. This is legal in many places. If it is legal in AU, then you have ingested the chemical you believe made you sick.

    So, if you are sensitive and you have those symptoms, you were somehow careless. If you were "clean" but use of Sulfite is legal in your area, then you have probably eaten as much or more than you could have gotten from Xtol.

    I suggest you change developers AND change your lab procedures.

    PE

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    168
    If you have questions on poisons in the USA you can call 1-800-222-1222 to reach the Poison Control Center who can get you immediate answers, without guessing or making assumptions. Even EMTs use that number when encountering a patient with symptoms and they need to know the right treatment.

  5. #15
    PeterB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    597
    Thanks PE and Mark.

    PE, I assumed the mask would filter out gases but upon more investigation the filters are incorrectly advertised as "providing protection against dusts, mists, organic gases and vapours, fumes and odours", and recommended for "agricultural/garden chemical sprays" but when I look up the Australian Standard, the P2 filter classification only filters out particulates "Mechanically and thermally generated particles including welding fumes." No activated charcoal in them at all. I'd been had !

    I was careful not to get any powder onto my fingers (I had gloves on). I think the route was inhalation of the powder via a poor seal on my mask or the sulphurous fumes via the P2 filters - so yes at the very least my lab procedures need to change. This could be a sulphur sensitivity not just a sulphite sensitivity.

    Regarding me being exposed to higher amounts of sulphur when eating foods, yes that must have happened however the peak concentrations would be different.
    It is possible the concentration of sulphite/sulphur peaked in my blood to a much higher level due to the inhalation route, even though the total mass I inhaled was much smaller than my usual exposure through foods. I mean that's why drug addicts inhale (or inject) their chemicals rather than take pills as they give more immediate rise in concentration in their blood.

    The maximum permitted level of sulphites in foods in OZ is documented here.

    Mark, your experience with ibuprofen is a warning to me. I will consider what to do.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,864
    As a chemist let me say that Xtol is probably the most benign of the commercially available developers. There is no free sulgurous acid in the mixed solution as noted in the MSDS. Your symptom is not associated with any of the chemicals in the developer. While I usually advocate taking safety precautions with darkroom chemicals. you fear of Xtol is unfounded and the respirator ineffectual. This is predicated on the assumption that you have never experienced an asthma like reaction before when exposed to sulfites say from drinking wine. In which case you would have tp give up darkroom work. I fear that you may be making too much out of something which probably has no relation to the Xtol. Like Scrooge you may have been suffering from an "undigested bit of beef."
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 01-01-2014 at 10:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    San Clemente, California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,101
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB View Post
    ...I had the solution heated to about 31degC and could feel the fumes slightly acrid in my eyes as I didn't have sealing goggles on...
    I'll let those with more expertise continue to discuss the possibility that there's any connection between XTOL and your symptoms, but wonder why you'd mix it at 31 degrees C? I've had no trouble getting Part A into solution at the low end of its instructions' temperature range, i.e. not much above 18 degrees C.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    170
    I have asthma (but controlled with no episodes for over 2 years now) and have no problem with Xtol whatsoever.

  9. #19
    polyglot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,285
    Images
    12
    +1 for it was something other than the Xtol. I mix the stuff in my kitchen and it smells nice, if at all. It's about the lowest toxicity/sensitivity of any developer you're going to find. I have never heard of anyone reacting to it, let alone using a gas-mask while mixing it!

    Either you ate something bad (including chemicals on your hands) and the timing was a coincidence, or maybe there was something in your mask? The only gas mask we've got at home we use for garden spraying, and (because of everything it absorbs and the nasty rubber it's made of), it's pretty nausea-inducing. Were the filters fresh? Was the mask properly washed before use?

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Southern USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,864
    I might also add that while we should always treat chemicals with respect fearing them is also dangerous. For example wearing a gas mask when not necessary can lead to accidents because they usually obstruct the users vision. Chemicals should be treated commensurate with the danger that they propose. While an MSDS can be very useful it must be read in an intelligent manner. They are written so that they will apply to everyone working with a particular chemical. So a particular warning may not apply with respect to your particular usage. Warnings are grouped into inhalation, ingestion, and contact. For most chemicals used in the darkroom the primary concern is usually eye or skin contact.

    Some chemicals can be rather capricious in the danger they may evidence. Tannic acid is not poisonous when ingested. We all consume coffee and tea everyday without any danger. Acid in the stomach renders it harmless. But when tannic acid is applied to abraded skin it can cause poisoning.

    Chemical names must be read carefully. The chemical mercurous chloride is non-toxic while mercuric chloride is a violent poison. Potassium ferricyanide is not dangerous but potassium cyanide is extremely dangerous. Chromium (III) as found in potassium chromium alum is not particularly dangerous but chromium (VI) found in potassium dichromate is very dangerous. ... So everyone be aware of what you are using.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 01-02-2014 at 01:23 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin