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  1. #31
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    Take a small sample of Ilford MGIV paper and in the light drop on some Sodium Hydroxde solution. It turns dark gray. This is a sign of incorporated developer.

    I know that Ilford says there is none, but my tests show that there is a weak developing agent. Kodak papers turned black. Several others that I tested had no change at all.

    PE

  2. #32

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    Thanks PE.

  3. #33
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    Even if there was any developer incorporated, that wouldn't affect the longevity of processed RC prints.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #34
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    I'm unaware of developer incorporated RC papersbut, yesmaybe.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fretlessdavis View Post
    Good tip. We actually live at the base of the Whetstone mountains (home of the famed Kartchner Caverns and likely many other caves.) So it is very likely that our water is quite high in carbonate. I never thought about it before, and just associated our water with horrible spotting on prints, and have been afraid to use it ever since. Maybe a wash in our well water with a final quick rinse in water with a wetting agent would work.

    A small pack of FB paper and some more hypocheck will be on its way shortly!
    Please don't change your working methods on the basis of a theoretical suggestion given by me. If you have found that your mineral-rich water caused spots, or other defects on your prints, then you ought to stick to what works for you—there are too many variables to consider without being there, at the base of your beautiful mountains. On the other hand, testing can be useful and interesting, if you have the time for it. By the way, if you are going to do a test, consider some sort of a filter, perhaps in-line, to reduce the insolubles in your water.
    Rafal Lukawiecki
    See rafal.net | Read rafal.net/articles

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    The short version is that I think it's much more stable than many people give it credit for, but not so stable as we'd ideally prefer. But sweeping generalizations can be misleading - the details of how it's processed, displayed and stored are very important. I now tone all of my RC "keepers" with selenium. I don't mind, because the extra process step is not too much of a burden with RC, and because for my taste most RC emulsions look better with light to moderate selenium toning anyway.

    I suspect the biggest long-term issue is the inherent stability of the PE layer and its adherence to the paper base, under long-term display or storage in environments that are poorly controlled for temperature and humidity - which is to say, the kind of environment where most of our prints will end up if they're saved at all.

    It should be noted that the long-term stability of current FB papers is also an open question. We know almost nothing about the characteristics of the paper that is used, and whether and in what ways it has changed from papers used in the past. Long-term survival of prints made on FB papers many years ago may not tell us much about the stability of FB papers manufactured today.
    Thanks. Indeed we don't know the composition of the papers available to us, but they do, with few exceptions, come from the same supplier - Schoeller. I doubt, though, that FB would decline in quality.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    IthoughtViradon was available again from new Agfa or foto Impex in Berlinother than that any sulphide or poly sulphide toner will work.you can also make your own
    Attachment 79622if you are lucky enough to find liver of sulfer anywhere.
    It was available again for a short time but discontinued again in 2011. Thanks for the link.

  8. #38
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    FYI;

    Incorporated developers does not affect the life of the image, but can, in some circumstances affect the life of the raw paper itself. The emulsion can fog more rapidly for example.

    As for paper stock itself, yes Scholler supplies most of the RC and FB nowdays, but supplies also come from the Ukraine and Russia as well as China and Japan. So, you cannot just pick on one supplier and say this is it! Also, I know that these companies tinker with their paper products, and so they change from time to time.

    Scholler makes paper for Kodak Endura paper, and they make it to a Kodak standard.

    PE

  9. #39

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    Does that mean that all Shoeller supplied RC papers are now equally good in terms of stability? Or is the addenda that makes titanox stable still brand specific?

  10. #40
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    That depends on the patent situation which IDK.

    If a stabilizer is patented, and if the patent is still in force, then that paper, containing that stabilizer is specific to the company that owns that patent. The patent can be licensed, but we don't know who uses what. So, papers can differ. It goes further than that. One company can specify a certain "filler" for the PE vs another company, or they can specify a certain thickness to the filler, the resin or the TiO2 subbing.

    All of this creates a variety of products in the marketplace. It is not a product that we can buy directly. It is what the company that makes our photo products uses as a support. They determine what it is.

    PE

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