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  1. #51
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ciba/Ilfochrome is coated on a plastic support. It is not RC or FB.

    Beware storing chromogenic prints and DB prints in the same folder. I have had some develop a strong acid odor and both types of prints begin to deteriorate. The Cibas turn brown and the chromogenic prints turn red.

    PE

  2. #52
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    Wow. I didn't know that. I have some type R prints stored with some Cibas (on the old RC Pearl Ciba though, because it was half the price, not the glossy acetate stuff that was around longer) and some of the R prints are not doing so well. The Cibas are ok, though. And SOME of the 2203 prints are ok. I don't know for sure which were in closer proximity to the Cibas but they were all processed the same so I never had any clue why some of my 2203 prints looked fine all these years later and some don't.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    ...on the old RC Pearl Ciba though, because it was half the price, not the glossy acetate stuff...
    Not directly relevant to this discussion, but glossy Cibachrome's base was polyester, not acetate.

  4. #54
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    Roger, smell the folder or container. Mine has a decided odor that it has taken on over the years. IDK what the cause is.

    Ciba/Ilford has trouble being on any support but that white plastic. Seems that the bleach liked to eat the other types of support. The paper would go bad due to action of the strong (pH 0.5) acid. Not a good pH for anything AAMOF.

    PE

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Not directly relevant to this discussion, but glossy Cibachrome's base was polyester, not acetate.
    Ah ok, thanks. The all plastic one anyway.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Roger, smell the folder or container. Mine has a decided odor that it has taken on over the years. IDK what the cause is.

    Ciba/Ilford has trouble being on any support but that white plastic. Seems that the bleach liked to eat the other types of support. The paper would go bad due to action of the strong (pH 0.5) acid. Not a good pH for anything AAMOF.

    PE
    I never had any problems with the RC pearl. I was poor - in high school and college - and it was about half the price of the glossy. Printing on it made it not that much more than type R so I changed to it for the ease of processing in comparison. If I'd had to use the glossy I'd have stayed with 2203.

    But it's interesting that others apparently did. Well it did sort of fray or come apart at the edges a bit making borderless kind of impractical but I heard the glossy did that too, at least the early stuff.

  7. #57

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    Dear Roger & PE,

    All my Ciba / Ilfochrome prints as good as the day they were made....but I never used the RC coated product only the GLOSS and Pearl on DuPont Melinex base, what CIBA was designed to coat onto.

    We had a tag line in our advertising ' ILFORD make Images that last ' also in the USA we had the 200 year life tag for CIBA on Melinex.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    All my Ciba / Ilfochrome prints as good as the day they were made....but I never used the RC coated product only the GLOSS and Pearl on DuPont Melinex base, what CIBA was designed to coat onto.
    I'm confused now. To my knowledge there never was Cibachrome on PE-coated paper, for reasons PE explained above.

  9. #59

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    Research? Yes, Ctein's Post Exposure, Advanced Techniques for the Photographic Printer. Second edition, Focal Press.
    This book goes into all these issues with uncompromising technical analysis. Written by a physicist with over 30 years of printmaking experience, so expect the highest scientific standards. No serious analogue darkroom user should be without it. It's out of print but some copies seem to be available online. There should also be a free download from somewhere on the APUG site.


    Sorry, this post got out of sync, I am new to posting on Apug and I was trying to reply to an earlier posting by fretiessdavis about finding a source of research on rc paper issues.
    Last edited by cloudescapes; 01-10-2014 at 09:01 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    Dear Roger & PE,

    All my Ciba / Ilfochrome prints as good as the day they were made....but I never used the RC coated product only the GLOSS and Pearl on DuPont Melinex base, what CIBA was designed to coat onto.

    We had a tag line in our advertising ' ILFORD make Images that last ' also in the USA we had the 200 year life tag for CIBA on Melinex.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
    My Cibas are good too, it's some of my Kodak Type 2203 R prints that are fading badly, while others are not, and they were all processed the same. I don't know what accounts for the difference, and was just musing, based on what PE said, if it could have to do with storage in proximity to the Ciba prints. It's no more than conjecture on my part though, and I'd never heard of this until now.

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