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  1. #61
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    I'm confused now. To my knowledge there never was Cibachrome on PE-coated paper, for reasons PE explained above.
    Yes there was. I have prints I made on it. A quick google search turned up the following completed eBay auction where you can see photos of the labels calling it just that, RC:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-SHEETS-4-...p2047675.l2557

    As I said, it was about half the price (well, maybe 60%) of the gloss stuff, which is why I used it back then.

  2. #62

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    Dear AGX

    We made RC based product as a lower cost item for the CIBACHROME Colour Copier CC1217 and CC120machines, some was cut to sheet, not sure if the product went out into all markets though....its a long time ago !

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

    Simon.

  3. #63
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    It was definitely sold by the usual darkroom supply places in the US. I think I bought mine from B&H.

  4. #64

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    I sometimes used RC Ciba paper for portrait commissions. I looked at my old reference album copies about a month ago, just for fun, and they look like they were printed yesterday, in contrast to the Ektacolor prints, which are already showing a bit of yellowing after only a couple decades. But I almost never used RC Ciba for framed work - just the glossy polyester product - with one exception, a test print hung in harsh direct mtn window light ... and even it lasted 25 yrs before any apparent fading. But intense projector halogen lighting in galleries could be far
    worse than sunlight.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    It was definitely sold by the usual darkroom supply places in the US. I think I bought mine from B&H.
    This is right. It wasn't just for color copiers - the pearl-surface version sold for regular darkroom use was RC, not polyester as was the glossy version. Roger has already linked to a box of the stuff. Here's a data sheet from 1992:

    http://www.21gradi.it/Public/Ilfochr...rl%20Paper.pdf

  6. #66
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Let me clarify to all.

    Yes, Cibachrome was coated on RC support. IDK the sheet sizes available, but it was out there in cut sheet. At that time, we were informed that it was discontinued due to problems with separation of the RC at the edges due to destruction of the fiber paper in the sandwich structure of the RC. This seemed reasonable as our experience showed that coating DB materials on FB paper itself caused severe deterioration of the FB. Our own DB material was coated on a similar support to the "plastic" based Cibacrhome of that time. I have a small roll of it here in my lab. Just the support and not coated. Grant Haist found it in his darkroom and gave them to me not long ago.

    As for fading.... The only thing I see with Cibachrome is not fading. It is the formation of brownish spots at random on the prints. And the only place it occurs is in the folder with Cibachrome, Type C and Type R prints. The C and R prints are getting red spots on them, and when you open the folder there is a faint odor that can be noticed. IDK the reason, but these were all properly processed.

    PE

  7. #67
    AgX
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    I just looked into my printed datasheets archive. I found it. Introduced in 1978. Cancelled in 2005.
    Which means I knew about it.
    Must be a severe kind of amnesia...


    (It is well annoying to exploit ones dumb-posting allowance in early January already...)
    Last edited by AgX; 01-10-2014 at 02:24 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #68

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    Ciba RC was available almost until the end. I never had any issues with it, of any kind. It was hypothetically available even in big rolls, so someone somewhere must have used it that way. But it was nowhere near as popular as the deluxe glossy product. But either one had to be
    used rather promptly after thaw or would develop crossover (typically beyond correction within 6 mo). I never particularly like the sorta stippled mat surface of the Pearl product. Probably the most beautiful color paper surface I have even seen was a bad batch of the polyester material where the gelatin weirdly dried to a luscious lustre less than its intended full gloss. They didn't either know how it happened or how to replicate it, but blamed it on bad gelatin. I was refunded - but that was not the point - I wanted more of it! I still have those prints, and they still look just as new as all the others. The demise of Ciba is eventually UV. They seem extremely stable in dark storage, unless mildew
    get involved, which they as also susceptible to. But I never took a liking to RC black and white papers for personal use, just for quickie commercial projects intended for publishing or maybe bound portfolios for an architectural firms etc. I'm pretty much a fiber-base and drymount junkie.

  9. #69
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    Ciba RC was very prominent in the two labs I work at in the 80's , SCL imaging and BGM colour labs.
    The paper came in 50 inch by 100 ft rolls, RC gloss, RC pearle, and the High Gloss polyester. I liked the pearl version of this paper.

    I started a Ciba process of my own in the mid to late 90's which in the beginning was enlarger cut sheet only , but once I purchased a Lambda I used 30 inch High Gloss material, that I purchased in single grade rolls.

    For enlarger work there was three grades to choose from in RC and High Gloss.
    In combination with very complicated contrast reducing with highlight protection masks we made some pretty damm nice print, one show of 36 murals hung in the Smithsonian.

    Once I purchased the Lambda machine we stuck with the top end product and its highest contrast material, because we could control the contrast via Photoshop.

    I am sad to see this product go away, but the Swiss Group,,, not to be confused with the British Group,,, were very impossible to work with, and the crying was all but done by 2003.

    There are still small pockets of printers who have stock left and are charging some pretty impressive rates to make prints.
    Basically they were lucky to be in a position near the demise to stockpile hundreds of thousands of dollars of this product , and chemistry. I was not in this position and basically threw out a perfect running custom Cibachrome machine.

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