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  1. #151
    swhiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I haven't pledged anything yet because I haven't seen negatives from it that look to be consistent enough in quality ...
    Flying-
    The negatives are awesome now and they ARE irregular because all the existing test shots were from handmade assemblies. You won't see regular performance for a good while because the film is still in development and will continue to be for a while after machinery is in place, like all products with multiple, variable ingredients. Sorry you'll miss the fun.
    -Sam
    Last edited by swhiser; 04-19-2014 at 12:57 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by swhiser View Post
    Flying-
    The negatives are awesome now and they ARE irregular because all the existing test shots were from handmade assemblies. You won't see regular performance for a good while because the film is still in development and will continue to be for a while after machinery is in place, like all products with multiple, variable ingredients. Sorry you'll miss the fun.
    -Sam
    Sam-

    thank you for clarifying. There was no malice in my comment - just a statement of a hard, if not entirely pleasant fact. I suspect there would be a lot of others like me who would be willing to buy the product if we knew the quality- please understand that my photo dollars are not unlimited, and I have to draw a line at where I spend my money. Right now, I can only judge based on what I see of your product. What I was seeing was something very irregular AND very expensive at the same time. To spend $75 for 5 sheets of film ($15/sheet is the same price range as 14x17 FP4+!!!), and not know if what I'm shooting will produce a result I can use is not a smart call. Five sheets isn't enough to shoot a project with, especially if the end results would look like novice wet plate pours. I really don't think these are unreasonable and unrealistic concerns - when investing in any company, especially a start-up, I would want to see very concrete plans to address shortcomings/unknowns before handing over a single dollar.

    It helps to understand that the quality of your samples is irregular because everything is basically a one-off without assembly-line regularity. That goes a long way toward convincing me it will be a good final product. Had you stopped there in your response, I would have reconsidered my fence-sitting on your project. The snark (perhaps unintended, but that's how it reads) of "sorry you'll miss the fun", though, was a huge turn-off. I do hope you make it to regular series production, and that you resolve your quality issues. If those two things come to pass, and the price of regular production New55 is NOT $15/sheet (my pain tolerance for something like this would be under $5/sheet, and I'd be happy at $3/sheet), I would be a buyer - in addition to personal use, I teach large format photography and alternative processes, and a product like this would be very useful for those classes. But spending $75 for a product that at this moment in time appears to be very inconsistent and may leave me with nothing to show for the money is not what I call "fun".

  3. #153
    swhiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    snip ... (my pain tolerance for something like this would be under $5/sheet, and I'd be happy at $3/sheet) ... snip
    Flying-
    You will always miss the fun because it will never be $3.
    Those who value it do not associate it with "pain."
    I'm being straight with you.
    -Sam

  4. #154
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Sam,

    Just give me sufficient warning of success so I can remove that rat poison from under the kitchen sink...



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by swhiser View Post
    Flying-
    You will always miss the fun because it will never be $3.
    Those who value it do not associate it with "pain."
    I'm being straight with you.
    -Sam
    Sam-

    Well, then I won't be a customer. But you are still missing my point - mocking someone who raises a legitimate question instead of addressing their concern is not going to win them over nor is it going to convince others who might be sitting on the fence. I came up with the $3/sheet price based on what a sheet of 4x5 non-instant b/w film goes for. I would be willing to pay 3x-4x what I pay for a sheet of Kodak or Ilford 4x5 film. I'm not buying any more Type 55 on Ebay because I'm not going to pay $10/sheet for a currently extinct product which has a continuously diminishing return - if 50% of the sheets I shoot have some critical flaw due to the pods not coating evenly, or being dried out, then I'm effectively paying $20/picture. At $20/picture, I can shoot my 14x17 and have spare change. I value it, I like it, I would shoot it at the right price - but $10-15/sheet is not the right price. As I said, my dollars for photography are limited and need to be spent where they will be effective. I'm sorry you feel that that sentiment is worthless.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Sam-

    Well, then I won't be a customer. But you are still missing my point - mocking someone who raises a legitimate question instead of addressing their concern is not going to win them over nor is it going to convince others who might be sitting on the fence. I came up with the $3/sheet price based on what a sheet of 4x5 non-instant b/w film goes for. I would be willing to pay 3x-4x what I pay for a sheet of Kodak or Ilford 4x5 film. I'm not buying any more Type 55 on Ebay because I'm not going to pay $10/sheet for a currently extinct product which has a continuously diminishing return - if 50% of the sheets I shoot have some critical flaw due to the pods not coating evenly, or being dried out, then I'm effectively paying $20/picture. At $20/picture, I can shoot my 14x17 and have spare change. I value it, I like it, I would shoot it at the right price - but $10-15/sheet is not the right price. As I said, my dollars for photography are limited and need to be spent where they will be effective. I'm sorry you feel that that sentiment is worthless.
    I think that with the crunch time happening, there's a lot of pressure that can be stressful and sometimes especially when you're involved in something at the core, anything that the tracks from assistance can be very hard to deal with properly, I think that as a fellow film shooter, you should raise concerns but also give encouragement to others who might be in a better position than you are to assist and help, instead of totally shooting down the idea for anyone. I think that's probably why the mocking happened because he's under a lot of pressure to get this complete after so many years of work on it, remember he's put a lot of work into this.

    I do believe the project has merit, but I also am on the side of not having enough money to spread around, and so I see both sides.

    I encourage anyone who does have the funds and really wants to see this project happening to help kick it off!
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Sam-

    Well, then I won't be a customer. But you are still missing my point - mocking someone who raises a legitimate question instead of addressing their concern is not going to win them over nor is it going to convince others who might be sitting on the fence.
    Flying -
    I'm not going to win you over. Your expression of concern indicates that you haven't read our Kickstarter page. There is no choice but the $75 entry-point. Your concern reflects a latent desire for the project to fail. Given our disposition of the facts, there's no other motivation to make the complaint.
    Respectfully,
    -Sam

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Just give me sufficient warning of success so I can remove that rat poison from under the kitchen sink...
    Ken, that comment gave genuine entertainment. It's a constructive and enthusiastic way to say what Flying is saying. We all have budget limitations. Many people simply aren't cut out for a sublime, elegant instant 4x5. Not least the wives. Suberb! Thanks for your commitment.

    -Sam

  9. #159

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    HiSam

    Can I inquire what you plan on doing by way of resellers and note I don't have a 4x5.

    120 and 35mm are practical for me cause Im never far from a shop that sells film if I run out. It is Sunday here and Im 300m away from a shop, that sells both, & is open till 18:00 local.

    I can use 220 as well cause the cameras I use are dual standard if I run out I use 120 instead.

    Some resellers might sub you for exclusive market rights...

    Noel

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    ...
    I do believe the project has merit, but I also am on the side of not having enough money to spread around, and so I see both sides.

    I encourage anyone who does have the funds and really wants to see this project happening to help kick it off!
    Nothing personal, Stone, but if I had a nickel for every time I heard that...



 

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