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Thread: Paper finishes

  1. #1
    Dr Croubie's Avatar
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    Paper finishes

    Simple question, and one that's bugged me for years. Not just darkroom and inkjet paper but also paint and other things too, and nowhere can I find an 'official' standard.

    Can someone please put these in the correct order?
    Supergloss
    Gloss
    {semigloss, pearl, satin, sheen, luster, velvet, eggshell}
    Matte

    edit: done
    Last edited by Dr Croubie; 03-07-2014 at 07:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    An awful lot of electrons were terribly inconvenienced in the making of this post.

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    Don't forget eggshell.

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    Simple answer: There is none.

    I'm primarily a painter, and ran into this decades ago. Just try to match white sometime. There are a gazillion tints of it. I am sure that there are no standards for what you want, as each manufacturer has their own way of doing it. It's also impossible in practice. How we perceive color, or lack of color, is completely dependent on the light source. Even white. Each type of bulb will give different colors, as each time of day will also give different types of sunlight. Just remember that all things are impermanent and ever changing. That sky that was blue may turn red and yellow shortly. It's like asking what color things REALLY are. Doesn't work. Things have no innate color. They only have the color of a particular moment in time based on that moment's particular light. In Zen, it's understood that all things (people too) have no innate existence, but best not to complicate things unnecessarily.
    Last edited by momus; 03-07-2014 at 08:01 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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    The actual appearance of these paper surfaces varies with the manufacturer and a manufacturer may not supply all surfaces in any one paper. If you can get a copy of an older Kodak Darkroom Guide there are actual samples of the surfaces that Kodak manufactured. They ranged from glossy to the very coarse tweed called by other manufacturers tapestry.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Croubie View Post
    Simple question, and one that's bugged me for years. Not just darkroom and inkjet paper but also paint and other things too, and nowhere can I find an 'official' standard.

    Can someone please put these in the correct order?
    Supergloss
    Gloss
    {semigloss, pearl, satin, sheen, luster, velvet, eggshell}
    Matte

    edit: done
    As others have pointed out, the terms for the surface properties are subjective. Descriptions of the surfaces of Kodak papers, as well as how they were manufactured, can be found at www.notesonphotographs.org -- look for A Guide to the Surface Characteristics: Kodak Fiber Base Black-and-White Papers, Chapter 4.

    Another post suggested that the Kodak Tweed texture was called Tapestry by other manufacturers. That may be so but it should be noted that Kodak made both a Tweed and a Tapestry texture -- a description of each can be found in the same reference.

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    Descriptions can be so subjective as to be almost misleading. If I envisage a Pearl surface and a Satin surface, my perception is that both should be very similar when I see a pearl and a satin garment in my mind's eye and yet in Ilford's case its Satin is much more matt than Pearl. Satin to my mind's eye has almost no sheen at all.

    pentaxuser

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    All those names are just marketing descriptions applied by manufacturers. There is no standardisation involved anywhere. Not to mention the changes you can make by hot or cold drying, or even vertical and horizontal drying, with or without a wetting agent (or Sistan).

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    sun of sand's Avatar
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    dont forget silk

    kit funderburke? has/had a booklet on silver paper -substrate- manufacturing available but i thought he had info on surfaces too

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    NedL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momus View Post
    Simple answer: There is none.
    ...
    Just try to match white sometime. There are a gazillion tints of it. I am sure that there are no standards ...
    This is why I have no framed prints on my wall.... I can't order the darned mat board because I can't tell what color it is going to be on the web, and when I've visited various photo exhibits and galleries it hurts my eyes when the white mat clashes with the print highlights.... maybe I'll start a thread here and ask for advice. Or else I'll mat them in black and complain that it clashes with the darks

    I too have wondered about all the different surfaces... interesting!

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    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Croubie View Post
    Simple question, and one that's bugged me for years. Not just darkroom and inkjet paper but also paint and other things too, and nowhere can I find an 'official' standard.

    Can someone please put these in the correct order?
    Supergloss
    Gloss
    {semigloss, pearl, satin, sheen, luster, velvet, eggshell}
    Matte

    edit: done
    no order,I can think of, other than maybe the potential Dmax.Dmax typically goes up with gloss levela glossy silver paper will have a Dmax of 2.15 or more.some matt papers max out at 1.6. to me a pearl or satin finish is most pleasing with RCpapers.with FB papers ,I prefer an air-dried glossy finishboth with a D maxaround 2.1.Technically, there isn't much difference but personal preferences differ.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com



 

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