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  1. #21
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I mean that I didn't do any levels adjustments, the scanner did scan at it's own baseline, but effectively I did no adjustments, no contest, no clarity, nothing, no sliders, just made it a readable image instead of a 150mb TIFF file...

    I just mean I didn't "cheat" and do any post scan adjustments at all.
    It isn't a matter of "cheating" Stone. Scanning is a viable way of doing your work. It can produce lots of great stuff and if it works for you, great, embrace it and do good work.

    I'm going to step out on the limb here though and super over-simplify to explain this at it's most basic because it is a concept that is important for people shooting film and sending it out to labs for printing to understand.

    Sensor data + a set of instructions = a digital image.

    Not using "a set of instructions" to "develop" the sensor data, is the equivalent of not using a developer on your film. You get no image at all, period.

    Somebody has to define those instructions and those instructions vary from machine to machine, program to program, operator to operator, resolution setting to resolution setting.

    The point I'm making is that the idea of a "straight scan" can only be applied "locally" (i.e at Stone's place) not globally (i.e at Stone's place and Mark's place and jnanian's place and Thomas's place and the local mini-lab).
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #22

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    scan and enjoy life, its too short to worry about other stuff, unless you want to ..
    Last edited by jnanian; 03-13-2014 at 07:55 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #23
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Give him a break. We all know what he means. People are just being annoyingly pedantic about it.

  4. #24
    erikg's Avatar
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    Pedantic? Isn't that what the 'P' in APUG stands for?

  5. #25
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Give him a break. We all know what he means. People are just being annoyingly pedantic about it.
    Because Stone won't be the only one using the info found here.

    Over my years here I have answered many questions from people asking what was wrong with their film because the prints/scans they got back from the lab suck.

    Hint, it's typically not the film that caused the problem/confusion.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #26
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Glad you found something that works, Stone. Do your thing, make lots of photographs, and have a good time.

    Yesterday I pulled out some prints that I had printed in silver in my darkroom, and a friend had printed for me where I had scanned the same 35mm Acros/Xtol negative on a middle-of-the-road Epson V700, sent him the scan and he made a copper plate gravure from it. Hands down the gravure is ten times more beautiful. I spent a lot of time with the print in the darkroom, adjusting minute tonalities and then touching it up with Spot One dyes to make it perfect (it's a portrait of my deceased grandmother and in her last days I really wanted her to look her best).

    It's all about skill at what you do, which probably shows that my friend is a better craftsman than I am.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #27
    eddie's Avatar
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    Glad you found a combination which works for you. Now, stick with it and concentrate on making more (and better) photographs.
    If you're ever in the DC area, my offer to get you into the darkroom, for wet printing, still stands.

  8. #28
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by didjiman View Post
    That's pretty draconian policy. The only film I use regularly is for 4x5 so LFF and various FB groups cover that already. I only visit because of StoneNYC's entertaining threads XD, and I will not contribute fund to the site with this sort of policy.
    Thanks . Hah!

    They are all a bunch of delusional pseudo-Luddites.

    Cary on...
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #29
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    Glad you found a combination which works for you. Now, stick with it and concentrate on making more (and better) photographs.
    If you're ever in the DC area, my offer to get you into the darkroom, for wet printing, still stands.
    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by erikg View Post
    Pedantic? Isn't that what the 'P' in APUG stands for?
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Give him a break. We all know what he means. People are just being annoyingly pedantic about it.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post

    The point I'm making is that the idea of a "straight scan" can only be applied "locally" (i.e at Stone's place) not globally (i.e at Stone's place and Mark's place and jnanian's place and Thomas's place and the local mini-lab).
    Same scanner and same software would scan the same scan in the same holders :-p

    A print ... The old fashioned way, is LESS telling because you control everything and it's never the same way, 'your' prints are often WAY more manipulated than my scans because you probably do all kind of dodging and burning and you choose a paper grade and bla bla bla all of that changes the outcome and is a manipulation in itself, so that is "wizardry" in the darkroom. Either way your statement should apply MORE to darkroom printing than scanning, because scanning has the ability to be universal, wet printing is all a matter of personal adjustments. I CAN adjust my scans, but I don't have to if I don't want to and can easily scan a baseline. :-p
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    A print ... The old fashioned way, is LESS telling because you control everything and it's never the same way, 'your' prints are often WAY more manipulated than my scans because you probably do all kind of dodging and burning and you choose a paper grade and bla bla bla all of that changes the outcome and is a manipulation in itself, so that is "wizardry" in the darkroom. Either way your statement should apply MORE to darkroom printing than scanning, because scanning has the ability to be universal, wet printing is all a matter of personal adjustments. I CAN adjust my scans, but I don't have to if I don't want to and can easily scan a baseline. :-p
    hi stone
    not to get philosophical on you but yea you are right
    darkroom work allows the printer to excessively manipulate
    a negative, as does a camera. method of processing, chemistry &c ..
    there really isnt much of a difference between the two end results
    modern can look great, traditional can look like crap, and visa versa ..
    i guess what pisses a lot of people off is that by using modern technology you
    are side stepping / bypassing a skill set they worked ( and still are working )
    at mastering .. and the sidestep has made their skill set irrelevant ..
    enjoy whatever it is you want to do, the photo world is changing by leaps and bounds
    even as we post to this thread ( calumet closing american stores )
    so in the end your methods may be more relevant than those who
    dont like modern methods ...

    sorry to be a stone in your shoe ..

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