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  1. #1

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    Failed first attempt

    Hi all,
    So i tried to process my first roll of Shangai GP3 (iso 100, 120 film) in a paterson system 4 with rodinal.
    I had a hard time in the darkroom bag and the film ended up coming off the backing as well as rubbing against itself and sticking a number of times.

    I've attached a picture of the film that came out, completely clear and almost all the emulsion seems to have disappeared.
    Now most google results indicate I may have used the fixer instead of developer, but I did put the developer in first.

    Does anyone have any clues, did I ruin the film in my attempts to put it on the reel?
    I'm going to try again but just want to get my head around it.

    Thanks all,
    Mitch
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_2448.jpg  

  2. #2
    dasBlute's Avatar
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    completely clean could mean you didn't actually expose the film, messing up in the bag would leave creases and scratches, could not 'remove' the emulsion. as long as you had the film in the developer first for a reasonable amount of time, and the film had been exposed to a reasonable degree, something should appear on the film, keep at it, the first film will warm your heart.... until you think about how you could've added some exposure and not had that telephone pole coming out of her head, and used a yellow filter instead of the red, etc etc etc

    so, more exposure probably, it looks as though you've got density on the sides which happens sometimes when handing the closed roll in the light...
    Last edited by dasBlute; 05-26-2014 at 08:46 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #3
    yurisrey's Avatar
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    Hello and welcome to APUG! It seems that there is a very faint neg (between the third and forth wooden bar of the chair) as well as black marks on the edges. It looks as if it was not exposed properly/or at all. What type of camera did you shoot with? Processing times/dev dilution?
    Last edited by yurisrey; 05-26-2014 at 09:04 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "The real work was thinking, just thinking." - Charles Chaplin

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchins View Post
    Hi all,
    So i tried to process my first roll of Shangai GP3 (iso 100, 120 film) in a paterson system 4 with rodinal.
    I had a hard time in the darkroom bag and the film ended up coming off the backing as well as rubbing against itself and sticking a number of times.

    I've attached a picture of the film that came out, completely clear and almost all the emulsion seems to have disappeared.
    Now most google results indicate I may have used the fixer instead of developer, but I did put the developer in first.

    Does anyone have any clues, did I ruin the film in my attempts to put it on the reel?
    I'm going to try again but just want to get my head around it.

    Thanks all,
    Mitch
    You say coming off the backing. As in the paper backing? It should. The roll of film is winded without the paper backing. Also a blank roll could mean you did not expose the film. What camera are you using? Is it possible you forgot the darkslide or forgot to take off the lens cap?

  5. #5
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    It's tough to tell in the photo, but is there writing along either edge of the film? If yes, then it's the camera. If no, then the fixer did go in first. It's possible in the latter case to have used developer that was too old and had lost its activity - then effectively, the fixer did get used first, even if the developer went in first.
    What dilutions, times, and temperatures did you use?
    As you put the film on the reel, the backing paper SHOULD fall away - you don't want that in the tank.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by winger View Post
    It's tough to tell in the photo, but is there writing along either edge of the film? If yes, then it's the camera. If no, then the fixer did go in first. It's possible in the latter case to have used developer that was too old and had lost its activity - then effectively, the fixer did get used first, even if the developer went in first.
    What dilutions, times, and temperatures did you use?
    As you put the film on the reel, the backing paper SHOULD fall away - you don't want that in the tank.
    There is a very small amount of writing, like SGHP or something, I believe the company name of Shangai film ( I don't recall).
    There isn't as much writing as say Kodak 35mm film which is completely full.

    I'm starting to think maybe the Paterson tank didn't distribute the Rodinal mixture properly as not all of the 500ml was accepted by the tank (overflowed with about 100-150ml), I thought I just made too much, but perhaps it didn't get spread and so that's how the fixer managed to "come first", development may not have took place!

    Quote Originally Posted by yurisrey View Post
    Hello and welcome to APUG! It seems that there is a very faint neg (between the third and forth wooden bar of the chair) as well as black marks on the edges. It looks as if it was not exposed properly/or at all. What type of camera did you shoot with? Processing times/dev dilution?
    I'm using a Mamiya 645 Pro.
    It doesn't let me shoot the film with a dark slide in, it seems to do most things for me.
    I've gotten a roll of 400H processed by my lab with great results (only roll I've had processed).

    I used the dev times off massive dev chart app, with 15 minutes in Rodinol.
    I was off to a bit of a slow start because I didn't get a proper sealing on the lid of the paterson tank and so I couldn't tip it upside down all the way, only to about 45 degrees or it would spill.
    With the fixer and stop bath I got the lid sealed correctly. There may have been about 100ml of developer solution that didn't make it into the paterson tank because it appears full (I mixed 500ml).
    Weird thing is the fixer and stop bath went completely in.

    I'm pretty sure I loaded it the right way around because I lined up the <--Start --> markers which were visible to me.

  7. #7

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    Did you do any type of pre-soak?
    When using the Paterson tank, one of the advantages over the metal tank I usually use, is the the reagents pour in easily. If you mixed up 500 ml of developer and had 100ml left over, it appears that you had at least 100ml of something else in the tank.

    On the other hand, the fact that the printing on the side is present suggests that this really is an exposure problem.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallendo View Post
    Did you do any type of pre-soak?
    When using the Paterson tank, one of the advantages over the metal tank I usually use, is the the reagents pour in easily. If you mixed up 500 ml of developer and had 100ml left over, it appears that you had at least 100ml of something else in the tank.

    On the other hand, the fact that the printing on the side is present suggests that this really is an exposure problem.
    I did a pre-soak in plain water, and the final bath i used kodak photo-flo.
    I would have thought that there would have been at least more visible even if I was off the mark, the bits of dark area on the film don't seem to resemble anything either, and there's certainly no frame edges visible.

  9. #9
    yurisrey's Avatar
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    I agree with Wallendo; Perhaps two of the following (or a combination of both): a) you had 100ml h20 from the pre-soak which further diluted your dev. b) exposure issue.
    "The real work was thinking, just thinking." - Charles Chaplin

  10. #10

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    I can't tell very much from the picture. You say the film was completely clear. If so, it wasn't developed, otherwise you would at least see the pre-exposed edge markings (film type, frame number, etc.). You also say that most of the emulsion came off. How did you determine that, when did it happen, and what did it look like? If it came off, either it was defective or you subjected it to some violent chemical or physical action. What developer, stop bath, and fixer did you use? You say the backing paper came off. When? In the camera? You normally remove the backing paper before development, and I assume you did that.

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