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  1. #21

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    for cool add more BZT, use less dilute, more exposure

    http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photogr..._wam_tones.htm

  2. #22

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    Thank you for the Artcraft link, Michael. I'll give them a try. In the meantime, I'm going to try running a strong magnet over my working batches of dry amidol powder, then double or triple filtering the mixed developer itself. But regarding this overall subject, it takes a bit of experimentation to land on the exact image color you want. And going cold tone shouldn't be confused with some creative blue color or split tone technique. Generally cool papers aren't the best for that kind of thing anyway, though I do know how to get a lovely split tone on Cooltone when desired. It doesn't respond to cold MQ developers the way Polygrade V did, nor achieve that kind of exaggerated blue-black under those circumstances. But if you want a rich deep neutral black, amidol will do it, if you develop to relative completion. Neither amidol nor gold chloride are especially expensive to use if you use them wisely. Some of the published formulas seem to prioritize waste.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    +1000!!
    I wonder if it was really that amazing, or if by now (and given the way it is usually spoken about in threads), in the fog of memory this thing has taken on the familiar by-gone product "mystique".

    I'm not saying you guys are wrong, just wondering out loud. I had only limited experience with this developer, running some tests and making a few prints on Cooltone RC paper at the time. I don't remember it being freezing cold (ie blue-black). Then again my memory of it could be just as foggy.

  4. #24

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    My experience is based on getting some CT paper and CT developer on the 2006 Ilford tour and then using both with MG paper(my own) and CT paper( Ilford's gift).

    The CT developer only made a marginal difference to MG paper. The difference was similar or possibly a little greater than the difference that WT developer makes in warming MG paper and very similar to the difference that WT developer makes to WT paper i.e. hold a MG paper developed in WT and a WT paper developed in WT and you can see a subtle difference but until I did this I wondered whether WT paper in WT developer really made any more than the most marginal of difference.

    However the minute I pulled the CT paper out of the CT developer the difference between this and MG paper in CT developer was as clear as day. There was a very cold look to it. I didn't need to compare it to anything to see what was a big difference.

    I never have had the experience of CT paper in CT developers other than Ilford CT so can't comment as to whether the same effect might be produced by Moersch developer etc.

    All I know is that had I been looking to give most of my prints this cold look, I'd have settled for the Ilford CT paper and developer combination and don't think I'd have looked anywhere else.

    pentaxuser

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post

    I never have had the experience of CT paper in CT developers other than Ilford CT so can't comment as to whether the same effect might be produced by Moersch developer etc.

    All I know is that had I been looking to give most of my prints this cold look, I'd have settled for the Ilford CT paper and developer combination and don't think I'd have looked anywhere else.

    pentaxuser
    I tried this combination as well and the Harman Cooltone developer gave results not possible with the Moersch product.

    Tom

  6. #26

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    We are getting some overwhelming endorsements of Ilford CT developer including users who have experience of other CT developers.

    It is a real pity that Ilford cannot resurrect CT developer. There may of course be a minimum volume needed from the maker and previous sales might indicate that this volume won't be reached but given Ilford's committment to the analogue market I wonder if it would be possible to have a batch type of manufacture such as Ilford do for other products such as SFX film and ULF sheets


    It might even be that if the price of CT developer wasn't a lot higher than MG developer then those who only did occasional CT paper and developer prints for the really cold look might stick with CT developer for MG paper on the basis that if you are biased towards cool then the marginally cooler effect of MG paper in CT developer compared to MG paper in MG developer might be enough to persuade users to spread its use for MG paper.

    pentaxuser

  7. #27

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    A thought: a trade secret has no real value if there is no commercial advantage to be taken from it, assuming of course that surrendering that secret does not compromise other parts of a company's offering.

    If Harman are completely sure that they will never re-introduce this developer, perhaps there is a persuasive case to be made for them releasing the formula into the public domain?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    We are getting some overwhelming endorsements of Ilford CT developer including users who have experience of other CT developers.

    It is a real pity that Ilford cannot resurrect CT developer. There may of course be a minimum volume needed from the maker and previous sales might indicate that this volume won't be reached but given Ilford's committment to the analogue market I wonder if it would be possible to have a batch type of manufacture such as Ilford do for other products such as SFX film and ULF sheets.

    pentaxuser
    I would be in for sure if ilford would make CT in special runs. Probably the only developer I'd use.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdeeh View Post
    A thought: a trade secret has no real value if there is no commercial advantage to be taken from it, assuming of course that surrendering that secret does not compromise other parts of a company's offering.

    If Harman are completely sure that they will never re-introduce this developer, perhaps there is a persuasive case to be made for them releasing the formula into the public domain?
    I may be wrong but I think that this has been asked of Ilford in the past and Simon's reply was that part of the formula is either a commercial secret or has an ingredient that would not be available to DIYers

    Others may be able to confirm or deny my recall

    pentaxuser

  10. #30

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    At the time Simon asked the board, it was pointed out one of the compounds in Cooltone was a chemical only made in-house by Harman. The compound and its manufacture are considered intellectual property.

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