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  1. #1
    chuck94022's Avatar
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    Rodinal and Tmax, or Help me get my process under control!

    ..
    Last edited by chuck94022; 03-10-2005 at 10:33 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #2
    chuck94022's Avatar
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    Rodinal and Tmax, or Help me get my process under control!

    Traditionally I've been processing B&W film in my Jobo. I've always had great results, but would like better agitation control. I recently decided to learn to use my simpler Patterson tank. I decided to play with a test roll of TMax 120.

    As an engineer I should know better than to have two indepedent variables in my experiment, but, duh, I also decided to try out that new bottle of Rodinal I bought - a developer I've never used before.

    So the roll I produced sucked. I had surprisingly, unacceptably high grain and some streaking. I also know I made at least one mistake. I didn't do the initial constant agitation, I went right to the 5 seconds every 30 seconds pattern. That part was just new process-itis on my part, not a preference.

    So before I process again, I can think of several potential problems right off the bat:

    1. Improper initial agitation.
    2. Poor follow-on agitation technique. I would invert while twisting 90 degress, hoping for more random sloshing, then tap the bottom on the counter several times at the end of agitation.
    3. Inappropriate use of Rodinal with Tmax. Are they compatible?
    4. Inverting rather than using the swizzle stick on the Patterson.
    5. No pre-wet. It did not appear to be called for, so I went without, though I do prewet Tmax with my Jobo.


    I'd like to be able to avoid the very high grain and the streaking. Any ideas before I soup some more test rolls and chase down lots of random variables?

    Thanks!

    -chuck

  3. #3
    david b's Avatar
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    This is just my opinion, but I would not use rodinal with t-grain films.

    It's great with traditional films like pan f and apx 100.

    For tmax and delta films, I use xtol 1+1 with great success.

  4. #4

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    What dillution dit you use? 1+25, 1+50 ? Rodinal tends to produce smaller grain in higher dillution but 1+100 is said to narrow down the tonal scale. I mix 1+50 with good results.

    The streaking is due to too much agitation, I had the same problem lately. Agitate Rodinal smoothly the first 30 seconds, then each minute. Don't use the tank as some samba ball, but gently tilt the tank (not 90 dgr.) and back. The last few minutes I even let it stand.

    As I don't use Tmax, I can't say anything about dev. times.

    G

  5. #5
    chuck94022's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by argus
    What dillution dit you use? 1+25, 1+50 ? Rodinal tends to produce smaller grain in higher dillution but 1+100 is said to narrow down the tonal scale. I mix 1+50 with good results.

    The streaking is due to too much agitation, I had the same problem lately. Agitate Rodinal smoothly the first 30 seconds, then each minute. Don't use the tank as some samba ball, but gently tilt the tank (not 90 dgr.) and back. The last few minutes I even let it stand.

    As I don't use Tmax, I can't say anything about dev. times.

    G
    I used 1+50 and the recommended time for that dilution at 68 degrees.

    So I probably completely misunderstand inversion then - I turned the tank completely over, 180 degrees. Are you saying I just need to rock it gently, less than 90 degrees? Would it be better for me to use the swizzle stick device to gently spin the reel instead? Is this Rodinal specific, or for any developer in an inversion tank?

    -chuck

  6. #6
    Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck94022
    I used 1+50 and the recommended time for that dilution at 68 degrees.

    So I probably completely misunderstand inversion then - I turned the tank completely over, 180 degrees. Are you saying I just need to rock it gently, less than 90 degrees? Would it be better for me to use the swizzle stick device to gently spin the reel instead? Is this Rodinal specific, or for any developer in an inversion tank?

    -chuck
    [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]
    Hi Chuck,

    I always invert the tank completely, but slowly. For me, one inversion cycle takes two seconds. One second to invert the tank, and one second to set it back upright. Some people tend to shake the tank like a cocktail shaker when they first start out and end up overdoing it. Gentle agitation is best.

    I recall seeing posts on rec.photo.darkroom by a gentleman named Frank Calidonna, who uses T-Max 100 in Rodinal diluted 1:100. For your refernce, I have copied a post he made on this subject. He agitates differently than I do, but his methods work well for him.[/FONT][/SIZE]


    "With either Tmax 100 or 400 try Rodinol 1-100 at 75 degrees for 11
    minutes. Agitate gently for the first minute then vigorously for 5
    seconds per minute thereafter. This should be close. Adjust your times
    to suit your equipment and taste. I rate both 100 and 400 at their rated
    speeds for normal contrast situations. Rodinol and T-Max films are a
    wonderful combination.


    Frank Rome, NY"

    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Hope this helps, Mike Sullivan[/SIZE] [/FONT]
    When the chips are down,

    The buffalo is empty!!!



  7. #7

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    I can't comment on the idea of just tilting the tank as an agitation technique. I've never tried it. When I use inversion, I do about 4 inversions in 5 seconds then rest for the remainder of the 30 seconds. That seems to work very well for me with 4x5 sheets in an HP CombiPlan tank as well as with 35mm and 120 film in a SS tank. To address the Rodinal and T-grain films question, I can say that I'm not too terribly fond of the combination. XTOL, Microphen, D-76, or ID-11 would be far better choices IMO. Rodinal is not too bad with TMX, and probably the same can be said for Delta 100, but not good with the faster offerings.

  8. #8
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Rodinal is a perfect match for T-grain films, and is highly recommended by a number of fine art photigraphers. I used it with Tmax100 for about 15 years usually at 1:50, never at 1:25 which I found to be far to contrasty. For N+1 development I used 2:75.

    BTW APX100 is a new technology film just like Tmax & Delta.

    Quote Originally Posted by david b
    This is just my opinion, but I would not use rodinal with t-grain films.

    It's great with traditional films like pan f and apx 100.

    For tmax and delta films, I use xtol 1+1 with great success.

  9. #9
    djklmnop's Avatar
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    Money is not the problem. The problem is, I don't have any.

  10. #10
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    This is a great resource for everybody using Rodinal. I always use this page as a starting point for different films in Rodinal.
    http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/De...s_rodinal.html

    I think TMX and TMY in Rodinal is a great combination. It's silly because I always told myself that I don't like the TMX film. But somehow I always got good results when I was forced to use it. Go figure. Now I don't mind using it, but I still prefer APX 100, Ilford and the Efke films with this developer.
    The only thing I don't like about the Tmax films is washing out the dye.

    Hope that helps,

    - Thom
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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