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  1. #1
    Ashfaque's Avatar
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    Almost there with my first film development (advice needed)

    I'd like to develop a 35mm roll of HP5 Plus with Kodak HC-110. So I'd be grateful if you could answer these basic queries:
    (1) I have some confusion of about the proportion. For e.g., Dilution B is 1:31. Does this mean "1 part HC-110 + 31 Part water (=> 32 parts =>) = total 300 ml, or something else?
    (2) If the proportion of a developer comes to a fraction, suppose 7.45 ml, should I round off up to 8.0 ml, 7.50 ml or, down to 7.0 ml?
    (3) I'll be using Jobo 1510 tank. The accompanied paper says that the minimum solution with inversion technique is 250 ml. Will it ok to use any of the dilution in table 2 of technical specs of HC-110 (see p. 2)?
    (4) I wanted use dilution B (1:31) for the HP5+. But, in the unofficial page, under Ilford Films, it is mentioned "If a development time with dilution B is less than 5 minutes, I recommend changing to dilution D and developing about 25% longer." It is exactly 5 minutes with Dilution B for HP5+. So, with dilution D (1:39), is it around 1:15 second more => total dev. time of 6:15?
    (5) Please recommend me the safest agitation scheme.
    (5) I will be using Fotospeed SB50 stop bath (1:19), Tetenal Superfix Odourless (1:4) and Tetenal Mirasol (1:400) wetting agent. Is there anything else I should do or aware of?

    I am possibly thinking too much. But there you go!

    Best regards,

    Ashfaque

  2. #2
    andrew.roos's Avatar
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    1. Yes
    2. Just measure it as accurately as your equipment allows. Don't round off unnecessarily.
    3. Yes. However note that while most dilutions can be reused, Dilution F is for once-off use only. Also, you will get slightly different results depending on the dilution. The more dilute the solution, the more pronounced will be the "edge effects" at boundaries between light and dark tones.
    4. Five minutes should be OK, but not less than this as it can result in inconsistent development.
    5. I use 5 inversions every minute. For a short development time like 5 minutes I would make that perhaps 3 inversions every 30 seconds.
    6. I don't use these particular brands, but they sound about right.

    Good luck
    Andrew
    Last edited by andrew.roos; 12-22-2014 at 12:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Bronica ETRSi, Nikon F3 and FM.

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    You are right about 1:31 being a total of 32 parts. When you work in millilitres you tend to get odd quantities of concentrate. I assume the various dilutions were calculated with fluid ounces in mind, rather than millilitres. Because the concentrate is very concentrated, you have to be careful about rounding up or down. I sometimes make slightly more than required to get an even volume in ml of the concentrate. Once it's thoroughly mixed, I only pour in the correct volume for the tank I'm using and bin the rest. Kodak seem to recommend 5 secs agitation every 30 secs, whereas Ilford go for 10 secs every minute. I tend to agitate constantly for the first minute, then 10 secs per minute. There is a site by Covington Innovations that gives lots of good info about HC110. I tend to use Dil E which is 1:47, but instead make it 1:49. I use the published times for Dil E and it seems to work ok. 1:49 gives a total of 50 parts and is easier to mix in ml volumes. One thing you need to ensure is that you use a minimum volume of concentrate per film. I believe 6 ml is the recommended minimum. That means that whatever your dilution, or final volume of working solution, it should contain at least 6ml of concentrate for each film. I hope that makes sense!

    Alex.

  4. #4
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Muir View Post
    You are right about 1:31 being a total of 32 parts.
    No.
    That would be 1+31

    1:31 means 1 part in 31 parts final solution (thus 1 part filled up to make 31 parts)

    (In case there is no volume reduction you could simplify that to 1+30)

  5. #5
    andrew.roos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    No.
    That would be 1+31

    1:31 means 1 part in 31 parts final solution (thus 1 part filled up to make 31 parts)

    (In case there is no volume reduction you could simplify that to 1+30)
    However the Kodak datasheet for HC-110 states (table bottom of page 2) that for Dilution B the ratio of concentrate to water is 1:31. So in conventional terminology, Dilution B is actually a 1+31 solution and to make 250 ml of solution you would mix 7.8 ml of concentrate with 242.2 ml of water, just as the OP assumed.
    Bronica ETRSi, Nikon F3 and FM.

  6. #6
    NedL's Avatar
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    Hi AgX, I am not a chemist, but my degrees are in mathematics, physics, and statistics.

    We'd normally interpret x:y to mean a ratio: "x parts to y parts", at least as taught in this country. I can see that it could be interpreted in a consistent way to mean "x parts in y parts" but if I used it that way in a statistical paper, it would cause confusion! When reading an equation with a proportion denoted by a colon, we'd usually use the word "to" and not the word "in". I suppose this could be an Americanism that I'm not aware of.

    But apparently in photography this is controversial!

    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    No.
    That would be 1+31

    1:31 means 1 part in 31 parts final solution (thus 1 part filled up to make 31 parts)

    (In case there is no volume reduction you could simplify that to 1+30)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    No.
    That would be 1+31

    1:31 means 1 part in 31 parts final solution (thus 1 part filled up to make 31 parts)

    (In case there is no volume reduction you could simplify that to 1+30)
    I would have thought the same as you and, in fact, I prefer to use the 1+x type description of mixtures, but the ratio type description seems to be quite widely used by manufacturers.

    Alex

  8. #8
    Ashfaque's Avatar
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    First of all, thank you all very much.

    Alex: Thanks for the advice on minimum of 6ml dev thingy. I somehow missed that important piece of information whilst reading at covingtoninnovations.com

    Q. regarding inversion: which option (10 per min, or 5 per 30 seconds) would be better in terms of more clarity (without generating more pronounced grain)?

    @Andrew and AgX: I guess you guys are saying the same thing, but saying different ways. I read Jey's post on ratio's few days ago. But I was still confused. Now, I noticed in the table 2 of HC-110's tech. spec. file, the right column is called "Ratio of Concentrate to Water". Under that we see 1:31 for Dilution B, 1:39 for D, etc.

    Anyway, here is my summary regarding dilution/proportion, for example,

    1. HC-110, Dilution B: 1:31 => 1 part dev., mix with 31 parts water = total 250 ml, for 5 minutes,
    2. Or, Dilution D: 1:39 => 1 part dev., mix with 39 parts water = total 250 ml, for 5 min *125% = 6 mins 15 secs
    3. Fotospeed SB50 (Stop Bath): (1:19) => 1 part stop, mix with 19 parts water = total 250 ml,
    4. Tetenal Superfix (Fix Bath): (1:4) => 1 part fix, mix with 4 parts water = total 250 ml
    5. Mirasol 2000 Antistatic (wetting agent): (1:400): => 1 part Mirasol 2000, mix with 400 parts water = total 250 ml


    Am I correct to assume that Fotospeed, and Tetenal are following the same rule?

    Bests,

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Muir View Post
    I would have thought the same as you and, in fact, I prefer to use the 1+x type description of mixtures, but the ratio type description seems to be quite widely used by manufacturers.

    Alex
    as a practical matter, the difference between 1:31 and 1+31 is a very tiny percentage -- what, two? three? -- that won't impact how the film develops. A 3 percent reduction/increase in a ten minute development time is only 18 seconds, after all. It takes you that long to dump the chemistry out or in

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by summicron1 View Post
    as a practical matter, the difference between 1:31 and 1+31 is a very tiny percentage -- what, two? three? -- that won't impact how the film develops. A 3 percent reduction/increase in a ten minute development time is only 18 seconds, after all. It takes you that long to dump the chemistry out or in
    Until you get something that is 1+3 or 1+4. Now you're talking about a real difference.

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