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  1. #11
    titrisol's Avatar
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    There are several liquid equivalents to powder developers, like
    DDX = Microphen,
    D76/ID11 is availabel in both forms liquid and solid,
    Rodinal is available in liquid only
    HC110 in liquid

    Powdered devs have the advantage of long life in powedered form, almost no oxidation in those aluminum foil ined packages, BUT liquids are very convenient.
    Liquid devs that have a long life include Rodinal and HC110/Ilfotec HC, they can last ages because they are made with organic solvetn and not with water

    And yes, most of the developers are different from one another
    Xtol is offered in powdered only, due to short life in liquid form

    Quote Originally Posted by thefizz
    I have been using Tmax developer (liquid) for quite a while now but recently I have read various threads on Xtol (Powder) being an excellent fine grain developer.

    Are there big differences in general between liquid and powder developers?

    Peter
    Mama took my APX away.....

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by titrisol
    There are several liquid equivalents to powder developers, like
    DDX = Microphen,
    D76/ID11 is availabel in both forms liquid and solid,
    Rodinal is available in liquid only
    HC110 in liquid

    Powdered devs have the advantage of long life in powedered form, almost no oxidation in those aluminum foil ined packages, BUT liquids are very convenient.
    Liquid devs that have a long life include Rodinal and HC110/Ilfotec HC, they can last ages because they are made with organic solvetn and not with water

    And yes, most of the developers are different from one another
    Xtol is offered in powdered only, due to short life in liquid form


    D-76 is available as a liquid? I was unaware of this.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by titrisol
    Liquid devs that have a long life include Rodinal and HC110/Ilfotec HC, they can last ages because they are made with organic solvetn and not with water
    True statement - But Rodinal stock concentrate is dissolved in water, not an organic solvent like HC110 and Ilfotec HC.

    Rodinal is highly concentrated and contains a lot of potassium hydroxide.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  4. #14

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    Developers sold as dry powder are generally more attractive because they are a LOT cheaper and the dry chemicals are pretty stable as long as the packages are intact. Water is heavy and most liquid developers, Rodinal ,HC110, and Ilfords HC-110 equivalent excepted, contain a lot of water and go bad shortly after you open them. You pay for shipping what can come out of your tap. Mixing from dry powders isn't all that difficult, nor is it particularly dangerous. If you feel sqeamish about a little bit of dust you can war a mask. XTOL is a very good developer. The only problem I see with it is that it will not turn color if it goes off. I have some stored now in full bottles that I mixed up, with filtered tap water, back in August '04. It is still working as advertised. The only exception I make is with rapid fixer. You can't get this stuff as a dry powder.

  5. #15

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    Sorry Frank, but I must disagree with your statement that Rodinal and HC-110 concentrates go bad quickly after opening; see my previous post.

  6. #16
    titrisol's Avatar
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    Not from Kodak, but I've found clones (Record and others) available as liquid conc.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim appleyard
    D-76 is available as a liquid? I was unaware of this.
    Mama took my APX away.....

  7. #17
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    Wally raised the critical point about dusting when mixing powdered chemicals. That is the reason that I generally choose liquid concentrates.

    But you have to recognize that the essential difference between a liquid concentrate and a powder is water - and you can supply your own water at a far lower cost than you can buy it at the camera store. So expect to pay a premium price, measured in cost per unit of final product, for liquid concentrates.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monophoto

    So expect to pay a premium price, measured in cost per unit of final product, for liquid concentrates.
    True, unless you mix your own liquid concentrates, using Propylene Glycol or Triethanolamine as the solvent - no water!

    I weigh dangerous chemicals in a glove box and mix under a vented chemical hood so dust is not an issue.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hoskinson
    True statement - But Rodinal stock concentrate is dissolved in water, not an organic solvent like HC110 and Ilfotec HC.

    Rodinal is highly concentrated and contains a lot of potassium hydroxide.
    If we believe the usual formula for home brewed Rodinal, a lot of potassium hydroxice goes in, but so does a lot of HCl (from p-aminophenol.HCl) and a lot of potassium metabisulfite. The hydroxide part mostly gets converted to water and sodium or potassium chloride. I have never measured the pH of Rodinal working solution, nor even seen anyone else's measurement of it, but high as it might be, it is probably not buffered very well and so probably has greater variation in pH from one part of an image to another than a lot of developers.

    A highly concentrated stock, even one in water, has the advantage that it can take up quite a bit of oxygen before a sufficient percentage is oxidized to make any appreciable difference in the working solution other than color. Although we worry about oxidation, I don't think that is the primary cause of developer failure. Oxygen is about 1/5 of what is in the bottle's empty space. Has anyone done a professional analysis of what is left in a bottle of developer that died of old age?
    Gadget Gainer

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim appleyard
    Sorry Frank, but I must disagree with your statement that Rodinal and HC-110 concentrates go bad quickly after opening; see my previous post.
    Sorry you misinterpreted that, Jim. I meant it to be understood that Rodinal and HC-110 were the exceptions - not the rule.

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