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  1. #1
    Kim Catton's Avatar
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    double/dual-sided photographic paper?

    Hi all

    I've been on the hunt for something I don't even know if exists I figured it was time to ask around. I've done some searches on APUG to see if the topic has already been discussed. Anyhow:

    Does such a thing exist? Photographic paper (b/w) that can be exposed on both sides? I don't suppose it does...when I think about, the idea seem ridiculous in many ways. Perhaps someone out there has tried making some themselves?

  2. #2
    Athiril's Avatar
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    iirc Lucky made some in RA-4 though.

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    At first thought, one would think that deep shadows (ie. the brightest part of the exposure you make) would print through slightly as paperbase isn't specifically light-proof. Then I thought of the times I have cut a mask from a test print when the mask seemed to work fine, so maybe only the highest exposures would print through - but it is a moot point as the double-sided paper doesn't exist of course.

    An alternative may be to put two sheets of single-weight paper together, but this material is now made only(?) by Slavich, which is not very popular in these parts so I won't be trying it. The glue or tissue used to join the sheets would have a big effect on the finger-feel of the result, and could easily also affect the life of the prints.

    For possible brainstorming purposes, what is the aim you are trying to achieve? It sounds like there is something interesting and we might all benefit from thinking around the 'problem' to come up with an alternative solution or two.

  4. #4
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinP View Post
    An alternative may be to put two sheets of single-weight paper together.
    Or coat your own paper using a liquid emulsion. You then have the option of coating one side of single weight papers or coating both sides of something heavier.

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    Good point. I wonder if the problem of printing through dark area could be solved by coating one side, printing, processing and drying - then coating the other side and completing the second exposure?

    Has anyone seen any negative* effects when putting a completed print through a normal development process a second time? I can't think of a problem that would arise in theory, as of course there is nothing left to develop on the first print after processing, but liquid emulsion may be mechanically more delicate than factory-coated paper, or the bond between the emulsion and the paper may depend on the size (ie. any coating of the paper prior to the liquid-emulsion) used etc. etc.

    *Sorry, couldn't resist the pun.

  6. #6
    Kim Catton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinP View Post
    At first thought, one would think that deep shadows (ie. the brightest part of the exposure you make) would print through slightly as paperbase isn't specifically light-proof. Then I thought of the times I have cut a mask from a test print when the mask seemed to work fine, so maybe only the highest exposures would print through - but it is a moot point as the double-sided paper doesn't exist of course.

    An alternative may be to put two sheets of single-weight paper together, but this material is now made only(?) by Slavich, which is not very popular in these parts so I won't be trying it. The glue or tissue used to join the sheets would have a big effect on the finger-feel of the result, and could easily also affect the life of the prints.

    For possible brainstorming purposes, what is the aim you are trying to achieve? It sounds like there is something interesting and we might all benefit from thinking around the 'problem' to come up with an alternative solution or two.
    Let me clarify on what I'm trying to achieve. As you said - we might all benefit from it! What I'm trying to do is "simply" put a photographic book - the layout I'm thinking of would need some pages to have images printed on both sides. This is a very natural and easy thing to do in both classic Offset printing as well as using digital techniques. But oh my would it be awesome to hand my bookbinder a one-of-a-kind completely hand-copied photobook.

  7. #7

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    Quite a few years ago, a friend in Germany showed me a book dummy done using a double sided photographic paper which I think was made by Agfa though would have been on paper from the 70s or possibly 80s. It must have been part of their graphic arts range as I think was quite contrasty as I remember. If more details are required could ask her if she knew the type of paper. It must have had some barrier material in the middle to prevent exposing the other side. I expect there will be a half used box of the stuff in a darkroom in Cologne!

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    What itis worth

    For what it is worth -- I have found over the last half century-plus that printers are kind of cranky and like to do things in the traditional way. For years many would refuse to work from 35mm slides not so much because the smaller than 120 or 4x5 slides are of lower quality but simply because they were not set up for the smaller slides. They had the repro numbers all worked out for the larger slides and didn't want to bother with something new. They may not like your new wrinkle at all.

  9. #9

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    I made a couple of books using double coated paper but I did it with the computer. What I did was to set it up so there was printing on both sides but not back to back images. So as suggested you could coat the opposite side of say 16x20 photographic paper with liquid emulsion and print one image on 1/2 of one side of the sheet and print the other image on the opposite 1/2 of the other side. That way you wouldn't have to worry about exposing one image through the other. Once processed you could trim the paper to the sizes of the book you are planning.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

  10. #10
    cmacd123's Avatar
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    Alaris has been pushing the idea of double sided photo books. Not sure if that is a RA-4 type paper, or something mechanical.

    my thought is that it is often a learning process to get an ideal print, and having to remake the first print if the second print did not come out well might be a disincentive to progress. I wonder if it is possible to transfer the emulsion from one substrate to another, perhaps ending up fusing the image layer onto double sided paper intended for spray-can prints.
    Charles MacDonald
    aa508@ncf.ca
    I still live just beyond the fringe in Stittsville

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