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  1. #21
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    The problem for me is the high contrast and loss of hilights. Those two contribute to a photo that doesn't suit my subjects very well. The only thing I can see that I've done different is my time under the enlarger has not passed two minutes. Maybe the extra minute will help, I'm sure willing to try!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie
    If you persue the Ilford Warmtone you will find one of the most beautiful lith paper combinations.

  2. #22
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    It looks like Maco=Cachet. I tried their RC paper and got the same results as with the Ilford. It's the Lith RC-F grade 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie
    Bosaiya
    Ok I will try to help but you must put in the time.
    Ilford Warmtone, chemicals as you have indicated will definately work.
    Overexpose on the enlarger
    start developing within 2-2 1/2 minutes.( Macoe lith 1 part AB 6-10 parts water 2 parts old chem.)
    You will notice the image is very flat and boring, wait, let the first indications of black appear. ie black hair, eyebrows, shawdows on trees bla bla bla.
    When it is still definately flat and boring with faint blacks , pull the print

    use rapid fix, you will see the contrast explode in front of your eyes
    This paper will never give you the Anton Corbin look but instead an old world yellow green print that is quite beautiful.
    If you are looking for the peachy highlights and dark blacks I would suggest
    oriental g4 or macorf2.

  3. #23
    Ole
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    I have used MACO Lith RC-F and some other MACO papers, several different Forte papers, several from Kentmere, just about everything from Bergger, as well as Varycon/EFKE PE RC.

    Most of them have given warm highlishts and midtones, none of them have come out of the fix as pure black and white.

    Here's a sample - on Fortezo Museum, MACO developer:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bro.jpg  
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #24
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    Hi,
    Just my personal experience : I use Agefix, a non rapid fixer from Agfa, and have never noticed bleach in the highlights with lith prints.
    Skander

  5. #25
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    I spent the last couple of days trying to come up with some decent prints. Increasing the exposure times even further (six minutes to nine minutes for hilights, up from three to four) helped in some cases, but not always, and sometimes with strange results. The longer exposures did tend to curb the overly graphic effect I was getting, but I'm still not convinced that I'm doing things right. I've done over fifty tests now and have yet to get a print I'm real satisfied with. That being said, lith printing may simply not be the right approach for these photos. I do enjoy the effects tremendously when they do work, so I'd really like to find a way to make it happen.

    Rather than keep trying to yammer on in my limited vocabulary I put up some samples so anyone who is so inclined can see what I'm talking about. I'm still having a real hard time with fine light-tone detail and the darks are getting muddy. I put up three lith samples plus a standard reference print.

    (sorry, the URL didn't work so well)

    The scans are at: http://www.knockoutproductions.com/angels/lith/
    Last edited by Bosaiya; 05-13-2005 at 05:58 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Wrong URL

  6. #26
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    I think I was not giving enough exposure. I added a bunch of extra time which tamed the contrast to an extent, but still didn't give the results I've seen so many times with other photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    I have used MACO Lith RC-F and some other MACO papers, several different Forte papers, several from Kentmere, just about everything from Bergger, as well as Varycon/EFKE PE RC.

    Most of them have given warm highlishts and midtones, none of them have come out of the fix as pure black and white.

    Here's a sample - on Fortezo Museum, MACO developer:

  7. #27
    Ole
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    Bosaiya,
    My example is a case of using lith printing to reduce contrast. The scene had extremely high contrast, and even divided D-23 wasn't enough to bring it down to a printable range. With lith printing and a bit of extra burning, I got this result. Exposure times were from 30 to 240 seconds, "normal" exposure for that negative (at the same enlargement, aperture and paper) would have been below 10 seconds.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  8. #28
    Will S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    Bosaiya,
    My example is a case of using lith printing to reduce contrast. The scene had extremely high contrast, and even divided D-23 wasn't enough to bring it down to a printable range. With lith printing and a bit of extra burning, I got this result. Exposure times were from 30 to 240 seconds, "normal" exposure for that negative (at the same enlargement, aperture and paper) would have been below 10 seconds.
    Ole,

    To reduce contrast when do you pull the neg from the developer? I've got a print I'm trying to do right now that is too contrasty if I let the blacks appear in the developer and pull it when it looks right. I'm using Cachet RF with Maco SuperLith. Also, I would swear that the fixer does bleach the highlights especially when super-fresh. I'm using TF-4 and the fixer turns purple which is disconcerting. Does more exposure or less increase contrast? Or does it have nothing to do with it?

    I also got a mottled-looking series of brown spots/white spots in light areas when toned in Bergger Selenium. That could be due to incomplete washing before toning I guess.

    Any help much appreciated,

    Will
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  9. #29
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    Sorry, I put the wrong URL in the link to the samples.

    The scans are at: http://www.knockoutproductions.com/angels/lith/

  10. #30
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    To reduce contrast when do you pull the neg from the developer? I've got a print I'm trying to do right now that is too contrasty if I let the blacks appear in the developer and pull it when it looks right. I'm using Cachet RF with Maco SuperLith.
    Also, I would swear that the fixer does bleach the highlights especially when super-fresh. I'm using TF-4 and the fixer turns purple which is disconcerting. Does more exposure or less increase contrast? Or does it have nothing to do with it?
    In my (admittedly limited) experience, more exposure means the highlights and midtones come in earlier, so you can pull the print before the blacks take over. More developing gives more blacks, so a super-over-exposed print can have soft midtones and no blacks at all, or stay in a second too long and go all black.

    If your fixer goes purple my guess is that it's carryover from an indicator stop bath

    Any rapid fixer will bleach the highlights a little, even TF-4 (and OF-1 too). I use plain old-fashioned acid fix, sodium thiosulfate and sodium bisulfite only. Since you need an acid stop bath with lith prints, I see no advantage to an alkaline fix. Saving a few minutes in the fixing and washing doesn't seem so important with 5 minute exposures and developing times up to twenty minutes
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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