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  1. #11
    Maine-iac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Johnson
    Is it a known fact that higher developing temperature causes more grain? I've been using Gainer's P-C-Glycol at 69 deg, but with the weather warming up, my tap water temperature is around 75 degrees F. So now I develop at 75 deg F, for 6 min instead of 7 1/2 min. I have been developing a lot of Fuji Neopan 400 and since I've started developing at the higher temp, I'm seeing distinctly coarser grain from this usually lovely film. Is this just what we would normally expect?
    I discovered this phenomenon when I was in Malaysia and the ambient water temp was 85F. Grain the size of baseballs! It drove me to learn the technique of divided development, which didn't completely cure, but did help considerably in reducing grain to an acceptable size.

    That said, I don't think you'll find an appreciable difference in grain size between, say, 68 and 72. Above 75 is where the problem becomes visible. If you really can't get your water below 75, either try one of the divided formulas (e.g. Divided D-76 or D-23) or opt for a low-tech solution like setting your graduate of mixed working strength developer in a small tray of water with ice cubes in it for a couple of minutes before putting it in your tank. You may have to experiment a bit (if your darkroom temp is also above 75) to discover how much you have to cool it to prevent it from warming up during development past the 72 or 75 mark.

    Larry

  2. #12

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    OK, looks like it probably not just me. I'm going to go to something like the water bath route to get the kind of texture I'm used to. Worth the effort for sure. Thanks for all the responses everyone!

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Johnson
    I'm going to go to something like the water bath route to
    get the kind of texture I'm used to. Worth the effort for sure.
    I'd think a teaspoon of bicarbonate less effort. I wonder that
    there were no seconds for lowering the ph? Dan

  4. #14

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    My summer routine (I live in the South of the USA) -
    Prepare a water bath at 70, deep enough to cover 80-90% of the tank's height. Get all solutions to 70 with ice water bath (including the clearing agent and Photo Flo). If you dilute the developer, you can keep some cold water (distilled for me) in the fridge (sometimes I keep an ice tray or two with distilled). Then I make a bucket of water at 70, or enough for 20 fills and dumps of the tank (10 second soak each fill). Photo flo at 70. If the room is higher than 70, you may not have any choice about the drying (and you might also factor in a slight rise in temp-measure the developer after developing to check-you may have to factor in a time correction in future runs).
    The thing I was taught: The warmer the emulsion, the more swelling, and the more the grain can move around and clump to itself (which it wants to do), even if you correct for development. Changes to temperature from bath to bath (from presoak or development through Photo Flo) make the emulsion react, so keep those to a minimum (when the emulsion swells, or shrinks, the grain moves). And, on general principles, keep the total "wet time" to a minimum. Summer developing is a PITA, but so are lots of things about photography (make a ritual of it and accept the extra effort-you can even get romatic about it - "the suffering artist".

  5. #15

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    By "modern films" I meant those made with modern technology such as those manufactured by Kodak. Certainly all the Efke films, J&C Pro and others are NOT modern technology. Besides being prehardened, modern emulsions contain synthetic polymers and less gelatin and are harder to reticulate.

  6. #16
    gma
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    I have heard of freezing developer in ice cube trays. It seems that you could add one or two frozen cubes per 16 oz. of the same developer to lower the temperature without any ill effects.
    [FONT=Century Gothic][/FONT][SIZE=7][/SIZE][COLOR=DarkOrange][/COLOR] I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up!

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    I'd think a teaspoon of bicarbonate less effort. I wonder that
    there were no seconds for lowering the ph? Dan
    I don't have the ability to monitor pH. I use 1/tsp borax and 1/2 tsp Sodium bicarb per 500ml of p-c-glycol developer. I would have guessed more borax would raise the pH. Shows what I know

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Johnson
    I don't have the ability to monitor pH. I use 1/tsp
    borax and 1/2 tsp Sodium bicarb per 500ml of p-c-glycol
    developer. I would have guessed more borax would raise
    the pH. Shows what I know
    Borax WILL raise the ph over S. Bicarbonate. BTW, phs
    generally top out at very low concentrations. Additional
    buffering capacity is gained by uping the concentration.

    At www.microessentiallab.com you'll find a huge
    selection of ph related products. Some of their papers
    are good for .2 and .3 ph indications; $5 S&H. I'm
    overdue to place my order. Dan

  9. #19
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    I ran a test ovetr the weekend Rodinal 1+50 in Efke 100.
    Same roll, pictures of the backyard and tral behind my house, tried to have lots of midtone and light grays to actually observe the grain.
    - Half at 75F for 10 min (tap water temp this time of the year)
    - Half at 60F for 18 min . Had to add ice to water and keep stop/fixer in ice water.
    Washed with a few changes of cold water. I progressively increased the temperature of the wash water, so the first wash was at 60F, the second at 62F, the third at 65F and the fourth at 70F. I hope there is not retiuclation.
    Tonality seems to be similar, but need to scan/enlarge to be sure

    PS. I'll be uploading examples here
    Last edited by titrisol; 06-20-2005 at 02:25 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Mama took my APX away.....

  10. #20

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    What I see is not retriculation. It is not a result of changing temperatures of different solutions. All solutions including wash are either at 68 or 75 within 1/2 degree. Film is Delta 100, D76.

    I think I see a difference whether I use a water rinse between developer and fix. I never use stop on film. The rinse is the equivelent of diluted developer for a short period.

    As I say, others may not experience this. Could be water supply or whether developer is mixed with distilled water. I mixed D76 with distilled water and used it on T Max once. Grain was hugh. A friend repeated the work because he didn`t believe me. He previously did the best tm 400 I ever saw. His client was not impressed.

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