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  1. #1

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    developing temperature and grain

    Is it a known fact that higher developing temperature causes more grain? I've been using Gainer's P-C-Glycol at 69 deg, but with the weather warming up, my tap water temperature is around 75 degrees F. So now I develop at 75 deg F, for 6 min instead of 7 1/2 min. I have been developing a lot of Fuji Neopan 400 and since I've started developing at the higher temp, I'm seeing distinctly coarser grain from this usually lovely film. Is this just what we would normally expect?

  2. #2

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    Gene, are you keeping all your solutions at the same temperature? If, not, you may be seeing some reticulation effects.

    Also, a 6 minute developing time may be too long. You might want to think about diluting the developer.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #3

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    yes. That's the real point of going to the higher temp. It's just too hard to keep everything at 68 during the summer. I'm assuming you meant 6min is too short. Maybe so. I don't know. I could definitely dilute the developer a little. But if developing at a higher temp means the film gets grainier, then I'll do what I must. Don't like grain. That's why I shoot a Rolleiflex instead of a Leica.

  4. #4

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    If developed to the same gamma, I have found the higher temps give more grain. Most can`t see it and disagree.

    An 8 oz bottle in the frig will cool 5 degrees in less than 10 minutes. Add a few ice cubes to the water bath and add some insulation under the water bath tray or spacers to keep it off the counter top. One tray upside down works as do the lids from 4 film cans.

  5. #5

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    cant say I have ever noticed any difference. I keep everything at 20 degs now as that one less variable to forget/screw up/forget to factor in....

    BTW// I have always (mainly) used HP5, which I like, but started to try some neopan 400 (having used the 1600 lots) and what a smoothie. I had used some about 3 years back in a 6x6, but this time I took note. Lovely smooth fine grain off 35mm. I am going to try development in pyrocat HD and FX39 to see if I can sharrpen up the grain a bit as the 1600 certainly is not as crisp as HP5 and the 400 looks a little smoother and softer too...(- in DDX anyway!)

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Johnson
    But if developing at a higher temp means the film gets
    grainier, then I'll do what I must. Don't like grain.
    As the temperature goes up so does the developer's
    activity. There is an attendant swelling of the gelatin.
    As the ph goes down so does the developer's activity.
    There is an attendant contraction of the gelatin.

    One might think that the shorter development time would
    compensate in all matters for the increase in temperature.
    As for gamma that may be true but apparently not so
    where grain is concerned.

    Do what you must, reduce the ph of your developer. Dan

  7. #7

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    Modern films are prehardened and it's very hard to cause reticulation in them without resorting to very high temperatures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Koch
    Modern films are prehardened and it's very hard to cause reticulation in them without resorting to very high temperatures.
    Many modern films are prehardened - but certainly not all of them are. Thermally shocking film emulsions is not a good idea - and it is easier to do than you might expect.

    This subject has been discussed fairly extensively on APUG.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  9. #9
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    Just for two examples, Efke films and J&C Pro 100 are very, very soft emulsions, and can suffer damage from sudden temperature swings, a rapid change of pH (as when going from alkaline developer to acid stop bath), or even simply being processed at too high temperature (above about 70F).
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Koch
    Modern films are prehardened and it's very hard to cause reticulation in them without resorting to very high temperatures.

    I've accidently (and now purposly) reticulated neopan400 with temperature changes that couldnt have been more than 10F between developing and stop.


    I also find that higher temperature increases grain when developed to the same known density....
    "Where is beauty? Where I must will with my whole Will; where I will love and perish, that an image may not remain merely an image."

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