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  1. #11
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    Two threads you might give a look: Why Pyrol Rather than ... ,
    my last post there, perhaps some clue as to;

    With Lith Prints is ... . There Bob Carnie tells of his regularly
    cranking out lith prints in three to four minutes. Alt. Photo,
    a week or two ago.

    Have you tried a minimal solution volume? Doing so could
    provide a clue to your problem. Dan
    Right now 'm just trying to nail down the exposure equation. I've read a lot of Bob's stuff and I understand the development aspects, I'm just wondering bout the initial exposure.

  2. #12
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    Bob, what do you think about my initial question regarding exposure times and f/stops? Would increasing the exposure while keeping the time the same result in an identical (theoretically) print? Would exposing at f/64 for a seriously long time also result in the same print? I've been looking and have yet to see that part of the equation discussed.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie
    Hi Nick
    Yes:that is one of the looks that I am working with .
    I have never had any luck with Agfa by the way.
    today printed with the lastest mix of sterling lith. just got a shipment from the UK.

    Bob I thought Sterling was out of business. Is it for sale only in the UK?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosaiya
    Bob, what do you think about my initial question
    regarding exposure times and f/stops?
    If you understand the relationship twixt f stops
    and shutter speeds when using a camera then you've
    the answer already in mind. Dan

  5. #15
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    Nick
    I bought the paper from Mike Rosen at Darkroom Inovations , he is on the Kentmere site as a reseller in North America.
    The original sterling plant was sold 2-3 years ago in India and stopped production overnight . the new stuff is not the same, but I really like it as an extra paper to work with.
    This stuff is hot off the presses so to speak, How the hell do you add an attachment I would post an image from todays printing to show you what this stuff looks like, definately not the pretty rose colour , peachy warm, kind of crap that some like for lith. Very strong looking stuff, prints nicely in champion and the surface is very nice.
    I will try tommorow to post the image here.

    Regarding the exposure stuff Bosaiya, all I can say is practice. I really don't know where you are going with this sunlight stuff and relation-ship between apeture and time.
    f64 on an enlarging lens will take you into diffraction and crazy exposure times
    Look at Anton Corbjin's work printed by an amazing UK printer I have been hooked on this process ever since.
    Like any process we work with , exposing some paper and trying different things in the darkroom you will get it in time.
    It took me 10 years of silly practice to get nowhere with solarization, a good friend gave me a Mr Jolly's manuscript on this process , one good read and the next darkroom session I was making solarizations.
    I would suggest reading Mr Rudmans book cover to cover, buy Anton Corbjins Star Traxx book (really look at it) and you will be well on your way to making lith prints with no problem and with exposure times under 5 minutes.

  6. #16
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    Hi Dan, I know that adjusting f/stop and shutter on a camera to get the exact same "reading" produces vastly differing photographs. Based on that then using a different combination at printing would give different prints.

  7. #17
    Bosaiya's Avatar
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    Bob, here's what it comes down to: How many 7-minute exposed prints can you develop at 3-5 minutes vs. 7 1-minute exposured prints? I'm looking at ways to make the best out of the time I have. Simple as that. You already do this when you alk about your 3-5 minute development time. I'm asking the same basic question but with regrds to expsoure time.

    I've got Rudman's book in the bathroom (no offense to Tim) and have read it cover to cover dozens of times. I checked out the Star Traks last week from the library and have pored over every photo in it many times since then. These two things are what prompted me to compose my initial question.

    So... do you develop your lith prints at the same f/stop as you would for regular prints but for a longer time, or do you expose brighter to save yourself not standing there waiting for it to expose?

  8. #18
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    Bosaiya

    If I am concerned about edge to edge sharpness I still try to use the sweet spot of my enlarging lens as always. I use stronger wattage bulbs than recommended for my enlarger 250w vs 150w or 75w. I buy a case at a time and do not panic over the fact that I go through twice as many bulbs.

    There comes a point where too much exposure flattens out the image too much and a point where too little exposure increases contrast too much.

    There in lies the balancing act to finding proper exposure in lith printing. Contrary to popular belief. Exposure in Lith printing has as much as an effect on contrast as does extended developing times.

    As well the selection of negative developer combination is extremely important with lith printig. A normal negative just does not cut it. Unless you are using certain papers. (sterling lith or Ilford Warmtone)
    hope this helps

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie
    As well the selection of negative developer combination is extremely important with lith printig. A normal negative just does not cut it. Unless you are using certain papers. (sterling lith or Ilford Warmtone)
    hope this helps
    This certainly seems to be the case. Lest you think I have been slacking or asking questions without actually trying things, here are two scans of prints I have made recently:

    http://www.knockoutproductions.com/angels/lith/

    Sometimes I am able to produce this look with some degree of consistency when using certain combinations of materials, but when I try to apply those to a different negative it doesn't work (as I would expect to be the case). Therefore I'm trying to find combinations that work, and as I do I am seeing what sort of range of negative they will work on. That's why I was hoping to cut exposure time to a reasonable amount so I could get more prints done.

    I think I've got a good starting handle on increasing exposure vs. development time to get decent hilights (the scan can't do the print justice of course, but if you look at the collar and surrounding skin on the portrait there's a nice range), but it seems like there are different ways to achieve that balance.

  10. #20
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    Hi Bosaiya
    Both very nice images,
    Lith printing and its options with papers, exposure, film choice ,film developer choice can be mind numbing.
    As you try different things make a mental note or better yet in my case write down what happens and try it again to see if it works again, I have made a lot of prints and with lith , I learn new things just by doing something totally unpredictable and different from print to print. There are no rules with this type of printing as well with solarizations and this is why I like printing using these two processes.
    The one constant that I have found is Champion Nova Lith A B, which is also rebranded as fotspeed lith.
    I have tried three or four other mixes with limited sucess.
    Others on this thread (danq) are mixing there own concoctions and I would love to see him progress with his efforts as I think this can open another world of lith printing .

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