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  1. #11
    thedarkroomstudios's Avatar
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    Thinking of the 'fridge aspect... I assume since you've been doing this for a few decades that you have already ruled out condensation and time for the paper to re-adjust to the darkroom environs?
    The Darkroom Studios ~ Brad Walker
    27 North Centre Street ~ Merchantville, NJ 08109
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    "Film Ain't Dead Yet!"

  2. #12

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    Lee, what some people consider acceptable or not fogged varies greatly. If you look at my work you'll see that I do a great many white on white type shots, any fog there can be very obvious. I also go to the other end of the spectrum and do images that are either split fitered or printed very high contrast, that is where I am having a problem today. And it's not like an overall fog, where your paper loses it's pure white and can only produce a light gray as it's whitest tone, what I am getting is more evident in dark values and seems like the high contrast emulsion was not coated evenly.

  3. #13

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    About agitation. If developer is too weak you have a hard time getting black tones, I easily get black tones, and in 2 minutes. I agitate the prints face up, continuously. I have 2 developers set up right now, Ilford Multograde DEv and PQ Universal dev, and the problem exists with both of them. If there were a problem with my Dichroic filters I would not be able to get high contrast. I have no problem getting high contrast, what I get looks like someone didn't evenly coat the paper. It does look a bit like condensation, however I am using paper that is brand new, bought today, 4 different emulsions, never refrigerated by me.

    What was that past problem that Ilford had all about?

    As for the fridge, that's only for storing unopened boxes which then get a day to thaw. My house is kept at about 45-50 % humidity so condensation in general is not an issue. I have used this technique for many years and never had this problem.

  4. #14
    thedarkroomstudios's Avatar
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    Well, I'm all out. You may want to post a scan in the technical gallery. If I remember correctly the problem was easily produced by fully exposing a sheet and developing, there were splotchy (highly technical term) areas that did not go fully black.

  5. #15
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    If you are moving the paper and using a diffuser(white plastic ) under the lens and if you are not getting the problem with the yellow filter, I have to agree with Lee and suggest there is something wrong with the magenta dichroic filter. I have been using tremendous volumes of Ilford MG4 and Ilford Warmtone over the last years and have definately not seen the problem you describe, I would not blame the paper , but maybe your camera store has shitty storage capabilities and the problem may come from their end not Ilfords.
    This problem is a strange one.
    Posting on this thread a couple of images will help as suggested
    as a visual check is more easy for some of us /

  6. #16

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    I just did the same test using a kodak #4 poly filter, still have the same problem.... it's not the dichroic filter, when my tests are washed and dried I'll try to post them.

  7. #17
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    Early Riser,
    I am having very similar problems with bad mottle and unacceptable fog (e.g. high Dmin) with different recent batches of Oriental Seagull paper.

    I have initially documented my problems to the Pure-Silver list including posting a scan of the mottle. [color=#800080]http://tinyurl.com/dzmrg[/color]

    I have written up my experimental procedure for another independent tester to follow (yep I'm pretty serious about proving my case!)
    http://tinyurl.com/8ddaw

    I have not been able to receive any confirmation from Cybergraphics that there is a problem (for me to get info from them is like getting blood from a stone). I am convinced the paper has a problem and am eagerly awaiting results of independent testing of paper samples I have sent to another dark-room enthusiast.

    While this won't help you out, I can't help but wonder if the two situations may be related.

    regards
    Peter

  8. #18

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    Peter, One thing that I thinks clinches the fact that it's the paper that is the problem is that the direction of the mottling is always consistent with being parallel to the 14" side of the 11x14 paper. That is no matter how the paper is exposed, vertically or horizontally, the mottling always maintains the same direction on the paper itself, if the paper is turned horizontal, the mottling is horizontal, if the paper is turned vertical the mottling is vertical. No dichroi filter, chemical or agitation problem that i can think of will yield that kind of result.

    You mention a similar problem with Oriental paper, it's funny but I read omn some other post that someone thought that Oriental and Ilford were actually the same paper. I have to disagree with that because their surfaces are quite different and they tone very differently, but who know maybe the emulsion itself is the same.

    Hey!! I just looked at your link, that is exactly the same problem that I'm having!!! Have you found a fix yet? Have you found a paper that doesn't have that problem?

  9. #19
    Jeremy's Avatar
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    Early Riser,

    Send an email to Ilford. I once had a box of their paper with a coating problem and they sent me a new box to replace it.
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

    blog
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  10. #20
    PeterB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser
    Peter, One thing that I thinks clinches the fact that it's the paper that is the problem is that the direction of the mottling is always consistent with being parallel to the 14" side of the 11x14 paper.
    Early Riser, I too am convinced that it is the paper and not a figment of my enlarger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser
    You mention a similar problem with Oriental paper...<snip>... but who know maybe the emulsion itself is the same.
    This must be the commonailty I have been looking for. The emulsions could well be the same, even though the papers are different. see this recent thread re. Ilford and Oriental http://www.apug.org/forums/showthrea...light=oriental
    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser
    Hey!! I just looked at your link, that is exactly the same problem that I'm having!!! Have you found a fix yet? Have you found a paper that doesn't have that problem?
    Despite even using absurd amounts of benzotrizole in the dev., I have been unable to ressurect the paper. I complained to the manufacturer (Oriental USA who is really a shop front for Cybergraphics in Japan), and they eventually sent me replacement boxes - but to no avail the replacement paper still suffers unacceptable fog and mottle!!! This problem even spanned different batches of Oriental paper in my testing.

    I am glad you posted your experience since the only way to fix this is firstly to find other people with the same problem, and then bring it to the attention of the manufacturer(s). Not in a manner that causes them to ignore us, because we need them as much as they need us. This is why I submitted my paper samples to an independent tester to confirm that the problem really exists (I know it does exist, but the power of one voice isn't too much unless you know people very high up!).

    regards

    Peter
    Last edited by PeterB; 07-08-2005 at 11:52 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: updated an incorrect URL

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