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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS
    After looking in the PLI the only formulas I found that
    use the same amount of the 2 are either DK-50 or DK60a ...
    You missed Beer's 5. It may do you for a Dektol type. If
    interested I'll post the formula. Dan

  2. #12
    gainer's Avatar
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    You can always use the 50-50 mix as a basis and add more of either to change the ratio. This means buying another bunch of hydroquinone and making a TEA stock solution of it alone, because I seriously doubt you will find much use if any for a developer solution with more M than Q. Alternatively, you could just keep the powder on hand and add it directly to the working solution. I prefer the liquid stock solution which only has to be weighed once, and if you get a pre-weighed quantity you don't have to weigh it at all. Ain't I lazy?
    Gadget Gainer

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    You can always use the 50-50 mix as a basis and add
    more of either to change the ratio.

    ...I seriously doubt you will find much use if any for a
    developer solution with more M than Q.
    There's always Beer's 1, 2, 3, and 4. Beer's 1 = Ansco 120.
    Any number Beer's would likely do well as a compensating film
    developer; Ansco 120/Beer's 1 being similar to Beutlers and
    FX-1. I've used the three on film and paper and believe
    the results good. For those who process the
    N +/- way, pick the correct Beer's.

    Actually I think a good job can be done mixing the two
    powders. Store the mix in several amber Boston Rounds
    equipped with Polyseal or Polycone caps. With film or
    paper test each bottle as it is freshly mixed. I think
    very good consistency will be found bottle to
    bottle. Your supply of 50-50 will last for
    many years. Dan

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    There's always Beer's 1, 2, 3, and 4. Beer's 1 = Ansco 120.
    Any number Beer's would likely do well as a compensating film
    developer; Ansco 120/Beer's 1 being similar to Beutlers and
    FX-1. I've used the three on film and paper and believe
    the results good. For those who process the
    N +/- way, pick the correct Beer's.

    Actually I think a good job can be done mixing the two
    powders. Store the mix in several amber Boston Rounds
    equipped with Polyseal or Polycone caps. With film or
    paper test each bottle as it is freshly mixed. I think
    very good consistency will be found bottle to
    bottle. Your supply of 50-50 will last for
    many years. Dan
    He has already mixed the two powders and is worried about the consistency of the powder mixture from one gram or ounce to another. If it is all dissolved in TEA, it will be uniform, accurately measurable by volume, and usable in a wide variety of developer types, although some may not be exactly the same as any published formula. The TEA solution will retain its character for a very long time.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    If it is all dissolved in TEA, ...
    I've checked my metol and hydroquinone and found
    them similar. I believe he will be able to mix them in
    a very consistent manner.

    TEA is not FREE. How many liters or gallons of TEA
    do you think might be needed to dissolve that two pounds
    of 50 - 50? Dan

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    I've checked my metol and hydroquinone and found
    them similar. I believe he will be able to mix them in
    a very consistent manner.

    TEA is not FREE. How many liters or gallons of TEA
    do you think might be needed to dissolve that two pounds
    of 50 - 50? Dan
    One gallon. It will make about 189 liters of working solution for film. Add about 5 grams of sodium sulfite per liter to the working solution to get full synergism. He said he already had a galllon of TEA.
    Gadget Gainer

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    I've checked my metol and hydroquinone and found
    them similar. I believe he will be able to mix them in
    a very consistent manner.

    TEA is not FREE. How many liters or gallons of TEA
    do you think might be needed to dissolve that two pounds
    of 50 - 50? Dan
    Dan:

    I screwed up a while back, and ended up with 2 lbs of powdered metol/hydroquinone mixed together. Because powder mixed isn't consistent (if I measured out 2g of it, would it really be 1g metol and 1g hydroquinone each time?), so I dissolved the 2lbs into a gallon of TEA that I already had here (now I only have less than a quart of TEA left ) and so now with it I can make lots and lots of developer! I figure that I can use it to make DK-50 fairly easily, as I believe that TEA and Kodalk (the alkali in DK-50) have a very similar pH all I need to add is sulfite and Kbr, and I can vary those to try different effects! I think I now can make about 50 gallons of a DK-50 like developer, and adding that to the 50 gallons worth of DK-50 I was just given last month by a friend getting out of developing I think I'm set for life!

    My biggest problem now is the fact that I prefer PC-TEA or AC-TEA (PC-TEA with amidol replacing the phenidone) much more than DK-50! Oh well, so it goes.

    -Mike

  8. #18
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    You can use it up faster if you make a stronger working solution and use it on paper. For paper, you may want to add some carbonate. If you get too much base fog, add a little bromide.

    The solution you have is quite flexible. While adding phenidone to an MQ developer is not always a good idea because P and M are sometimes antagonistic, amidol and metol get along OK, and the activity of an MQ developer can be increased by adding a very small amount of amidol. Amidol keeps well dissolved in TEA. A 1% solution is handy to have around. A little of that can be used to doctor up PMK as well.

    If you want to concoct a developer using amidol and either hydroquinone or ascorbic acid from the start, the ratio may be 1 part of amidol to 80 or more parts of the other. You still need sulfite with hydroquinone unless you want a staining developer, but not with ascorbic acid, with which you cannot get a staining developer.
    Gadget Gainer

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    You can use it up faster if you make a stronger working solution and use it on paper. For paper, you may want to add some carbonate. If you get too much base fog, add a little bromide.
    I tried this, and it worked great. I used 20ml of the concentrate with a teaspoon of sulfite, and a teaspoon of carbonate in it mixed into 250ml of water, and it made a fairly fast working print developer (tonight I'm going to try half as much concentrate)

    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    The solution you have is quite flexible. While adding phenidone to an MQ developer is not always a good idea because P and M are sometimes antagonistic, amidol and metol get along OK, and the activity of an MQ developer can be increased by adding a very small amount of amidol. Amidol keeps well dissolved in TEA. A 1% solution is handy to have around. A little of that can be used to doctor up PMK as well.
    I keep a 1% solution of Amidol in PG just for making PMK+ already, hadn't thought about adding a similar proportion of amidol to an MQ developer!

    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    If you want to concoct a developer using amidol and either hydroquinone or ascorbic acid from the start, the ratio may be 1 part of amidol to 80 or more parts of the other. You still need sulfite with hydroquinone unless you want a staining developer, but not with ascorbic acid, with which you cannot get a staining developer.
    I had mixed up what I called AC-TEA where I basically used the same amount of Amidol as I would have used Phenidone in PC-TEA, and it makes a really nice non-staining developer.

    Tonight I tried a test. I shot 6 sheets of J&C 400 film, I developed 2 of them in 20ml/l with nothing else added, for 11 minutes, and got a couple of very thin (but I think printable) negatives that if they have any stain on them, I can't see it (but that's not to say it's not there). I developed 2 of them in 20ml/l + 1 tsp Sulfite (my teaspoons average between 9.1g and 9.5g of Sulfite) and also developed them for 11 minutes. This test was done with a fresh batch of developer as the original batch went into the tank a dark brown, came out dark black!) These negatives came out pretty good, but with lots of base fog. Next I took the developer, and added 2 more tsp of Sulfite, along with 5ml of 10% Kbr effectively making DK-50. I developed the last 2 in this for 8 minutes, and they came out the best of the bunch, with about the same density (by eye) as the second batch, possibly more, and very little base fog!

    What I need to test now is doing a couple more, with only 1 tsp of Sulfite, but adding the Kbr as well, and see how those come out. Would adding 2 more tsp of Sulfite make the developer faster working?

    Along similar lines, will Sulfite dissolve in PG or TEA? The reason I ask is that along with my gallon of MQ mix I also have about another 50 gallons worth of genuine Kodak DK-50 (most of it in cans to make 5 gallons, some in 1 gallon packets) and was wondering if I was to mix them up (say the 1 gallon packets, as the cans can last a long time as they are, but I worry about the life of the packets) in 250ml of PG, then to use it I could dilute it 1+3 to have normal stock strength, would that work?

    -Mike

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS
    I tried this, and it worked great. I used 20ml of the
    concentrate with a teaspoon of sulfite, and a teaspoon
    of carbonate in it mixed into 250ml of water, and it made
    a fairly fast working print developer (tonight I'm going
    to try half as much concentrate)
    There you have it Beer's 5. Very nearly a Dektol I'd say.
    Exactly a Beer's 5, likely not, as the ratios of sulfite
    and carbonate are not likely the same.

    Yes, try half and perhaps half again. Allow 3 or 5
    minutes for good blacks, make note and you've my
    secret for one-shot print developer. Dan

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